LLL Reptile-Beware!

Double team here with you two. Ok - First off, Eric - I just replied to your email. If you WANT to actually talk about this like adults, instead of calling someone a "LIAR", then I expect your response via email. I am HAPPY to talk about this with you on a professional basis. Hell, I even defended you a bit above, and you go on the attack. Settle down - let's figure this out. Now, read:

Calling someone a liar means I intentionally lied here? Right? I called our warehouse. Our girls looked up your invoice, and GAVE me those dates as to when you called. Obviously, in your opinion, this timeframe is WRONG. However, I did NOT lie, at all, in any way, shape, or form. These are the dates written down on your invoice in our system of your calls. I have never spoken with you up until this point.

David - thanks again for your insight here with your friend. I am quite sure that there was no intention behind this, and that most people on the BOI will inform you of this. Good to defend your friend, but tone it down a bit. Your friend will tell you that I emailed him back, and he and I can hammer this out.

Lastly - You yourself said that when you spoke with Kate, that you and her decided that both were to partly blame, and you figured out a credit here. Regardless of the timeframe, it was still after the written guarantee, and that - we can agree on, right?

Email me back (Eric only), and you and I can talk about this. Or, we can leave this as unfinished. If I had the dates wrong, I honestly apologize. I will personally call our warehouse in the morning when they re-open, discuss this with our girls, and see what both parties have to say.

I can say that I've bought supplies, feeders, and animals from LLLreptile and have only ever had very minor hiccups that are to be expected with any business and they've always taken care of me when given the chance. I bought a ball python from them at the show in Vegas earlier this month and he's doing great... I found a sinle mite on him when I got him home and had I been concerned about it I would have notified them immediately, not waited 3 weeks and then expect credit and free shipping. By the way LLL I only mention the mite as a way of saying that even the best companies miss things once in a while and besides which it could have just as easily come from someone else who handled the snake before me. You might want to make it a habit to have people sanitize their hands before handling your animals at the shows. Anyway... I think LLL went above and beyond what any experienced herper would excpect them to.
Eric, when you order anything from a company online you need to read the terms and conditions and if ever you have a problem with an order you need to contact the seller immediately. This is especially true when it comes to animals, and if you notice something you haven't encountered before, like red mites, call the seller who most likely has and ask for help before you start a treatment that may well cause more damage than good.

P.s. David, how easy is it to miss a mite or two on a gecko with numerous folds of skin? They may not have even started as adults. LLL very likely killed all the adults in their treatments and didn't get all the eggs which would explain why they didn't show up til later.

Originally Posted by Eric Favez

Hello,

My name is Eric Favez and I am posting this as a result of my experience with LLL Reptile Co. in the hopes that others will be warned of the subpar business practices and ethics displayed by this company.

In November of this year (2009) I purchased a single Cork Bark Gecko (Uroplatus pietschmanni) from them. The price of the animal was $160 + shipping, so the total was $200 even. I paid for the animal via Money Order. The animal was stated in their ad on Kingsnake.com as being in excellent health and flawless. I found this not to be the case upon receiving the animal. The gecko was infested with mites upon arrival (not the typical black snake mites, but a red mite) that can be seen here in these pictures:





I know they can be a bit hard to see due to the animal's coloration, but there are several red spots (mites) visible....there were also many more that I could not capture adequately in a photo on the animal's toe pads and on the face region. In short, I received an animal that was flawed and teaming with unwelcome guests (in my opinion, a violation of LLL's claims of selling healthy, flawless animals).

I did what any person would do and attempted to rid the animal of the mites....I did so with un-abrasive chemicals such as Reptile Relief and anti-bacterial soap and q-tips. I did not use strong chemicals such as Provent-A-Mite because I knew that geckos, in particular Uroplatus species are very sensitive and this would jeopardize the animal's health. Unfortunately the gecko died approximately a week after I received it.

After the gecko died, I called and spoke with a representative from LLL and we came to agreement that neither party was 100% at fault for the animal's death (even though they sent me an animal with mites) and that I would receive half of the animal's value ($80) in store credit as reparation for the gecko dying. I called them today to try and cash in on my store credit (my intention was to get a Tree Frog and some supplies worth the amount of my credit)....at first, they did not even have the species I wanted, despite having it listed on both their website and their most recent Kingsnake.com advertisement, so we agreed upon another species.

Then the representative informs me that there would be a shipping charge of $40 to ship the frog to my house, making the total cost of the frog alone exceed my $80 credit....this of course did not sit well with me, because I did not feel that the burden of the cost of shipping should rest with them, because I had already paid shipping for my gecko that was infested with mites and is now dead. This means that I would receive only $40 in credit, when they had agreed to give $80. This does not seem like a fair recourse, seeing as how I am already out $200 for the cost of the gecko. This may not seem like a lot of money to some people, but I am merely a humble hobbyist who works hard to pay for the hobby that I enjoy. $200 is a fair chunk of change for me to just toss down the drain in this economy.

LLL Reptile sent me a flawed, unhealthy animal that died as a result of their shortcoming (the mite infestation), then tried to tag me with additional shipping charges when I tried to incur my due credit as a result of the gecko dying. All of my interactions with them have been on the phone, so I have no tangible record of our correspondence, but I have proof of the gecko having mites and being dead. I wold warn others to beware of doing business with this company in the hopes that they do not receive the short end of the stick as I did.

Here is a picture of my $200 investment from LLL Reptile....money well spent!





[img]

Eric,

you say here you contacted them AFTER it died...not after you noticed the mites..

"WOW!!!!! LLL your a LIAR!!! Nov 6th was on a fri.....late sunday night on the 8th I noticed the mites and left you a message on the phone and yall called me back on Monday. Your A LIAR and you know it...I dont know who I spoke with and I dont care....they told me to see how the animal dooes with me treating it...and it died! Dont send out animals with mites and this could all be avoided! And people, just because its "LLL" doesnt mean they cant lie...theyre LYING. You were notified as soon as I seen the mites! Your shop was closed for the night and I left a message....Screw your credit...I would never do buis with yall again, YOUR LIARS!!! And you know it!"

...your mixing your story up Eric

no kidding, yes eric anyone, including you, has the ability to lie but you have yet to give sufficient evidince that your not the one who messed up. Maybe in the future you should email and make calls so that there is something in writing and I'm sure no honest seller would have a problem with that.

Of course I contacted them after the animal died...duh This does not mean this was the first time I contacted them. I had actually spoke with them on a few occasions about the whole situation prior to the animal dying. Anyway Like I said....They guarantee healthy thriving animals right?? But im wrong here...lol And I did not only talk to women...the first time I talked to anyone it was a man, and he was the one who called back Monday after he got my message. And yes we agreed on $80, but if I pay shipping than thats only $40...think people! And all you people saying they didnt even have to do that...your right, but I WAS SOLD A MITE INFESTED ANIMAL!!!!!! If I would have known before that theyre animals had mites I WOULD NOT have bought anything from them. Lets see...If I or any of you sold an animal that was ill or not in the condition as advertised and it later died as a result...Wouldnt you actually refund all the money? Wouldnt you feel bad? Now if those are the records that they have at your shop I would suggest hiring some people who are supposed to do theyre job right. If they are supposed to document everything...than they messed up! Like I said before...you were notified as soon as they were spotted! And it wasnt 16 days later..lol wow!

Originally Posted by Eric Favez

Of course I contacted them after the animal died...duh This does not mean this was the first time I contacted them. I had actually spoke with them on a few occasions about the whole situation prior to the animal dying. Anyway Like I said....They guarantee healthy thriving animals right?? But im wrong here...lol And I did not only talk to women...the first time I talked to anyone it was a man, and he was the one who called back Monday after he got my message. And yes we agreed on $80, but if I pay shipping than thats only $40...think people! And all you people saying they didnt even have to do that...your right, but I WAS SOLD A MITE INFESTED ANIMAL!!!!!! If I would have known before that theyre animals had mites I WOULD NOT have bought anything from them. Lets see...If I or any of you sold an animal that was ill or not in the condition as advertised and it later died as a result...Wouldnt you actually refund all the money? Wouldnt you feel bad? Now if those are the records that they have at your shop I would suggest hiring some people who are supposed to do theyre job right. If they are supposed to document everything...than they messed up! Like I said before...you were notified as soon as they were spotted! And it wasnt 16 days later..lol wow!

Eric,

Why did you not explain all of this in the first post? Also the animal WAS shipped to you, why would they refund shipping? LLL is has a great guarantee on their animals and would replace them fully if the terms were followed. Your "little hick-up" of not mentioning critical information in the first post kinda makes me wonder...

I'm beginning to think some of you have difficulty with reading comprehension.

As Eric has said, whatever timeline that your employees have, it is 100% inaccurate. To be clear, you are correct....you might not have "lied" in the exact guidelines of the word, but you offered information that was contrary to what Eric and I were saying in an attempt to discredit our information. Whatever intentions you have or don't have are not my concern. I am not psychic nor do I wish to play one on TV.

Maybe its just me, but I'd like to see more people doing the right thing. I have had a few issues in the past with DOAs on animals I have sent people.....and every time I was within my rights to tell them "tough luck" but I did not. I replaced the animals ASAP ithout question and I also ate the shipping costs myself out of courtesy to the customer for my mistake(s). Thats just what I think is the proper thing to do. Just because a company has a "policy" does mean that policy is ethical or conducive to doing good business.

Originally Posted by DavidBeard

I'm beginning to think some of you have difficulty with reading comprehension.

As Eric has said, whatever timeline that your employees have, it is 100% inaccurate. To be clear, you are correct....you might not have "lied" in the exact guidelines of the word, but you offered information that was contrary to what Eric and I were saying in an attempt to discredit our information. Whatever intentions you have or don't have are not my concern. I am not psychic nor do I wish to play one on TV.

Maybe its just me, but I'd like to see more people doing the right thing. I have had a few issues in the past with DOAs on animals I have sent people.....and every time I was within my rights to tell them "tough luck" but I did not. I replaced the animals ASAP ithout question and I also ate the shipping costs myself out of courtesy to the customer for my mistake(s). Thats just what I think is the proper thing to do. Just because a company has a "policy" does mean that policy is ethical or conducive to doing good business.

DOA's are diffrent. The animal died during shipping, the customer recieves it and tells you "HEY! the animal ARRIVED dead"..you then replace the animal and shipped it again...okay thats the right thing to do because well it arrived dead.

We DO NOT have a DOA here, so please lets not confuse others. According to the original post..Eric got a gecko, it had mites, he decided to treat it with "mite replants"..it Died a week later, then he called LLL, then he was offered $80 credit. Then he changed the story in another post saying he contacted them first and blah blah blah....that "hick-up" is why its seems kinda fishy..

if it had been a shipping error that was the problem then I say yes the shipping on a new animal should be covered but they issued a credit when you failed to contact them right away with the problem. Let me ask you this... you say they sent you an animal with mites but that you didn't notice them right away, well isn't it just as much your responsibility to check the animal in detail upon arrival and your going to tell me that you did that and they weren't open at the time. I don't buy it. I think that Scott is being more than fair. I get that your bummed that you spent a chunk of change on something that didn't pan out but that doesn't mean that it's automatically Scotts responsibility to cover what could've been fixed right away. Terms and conditions are set forth for a reason David... You're absolutely right that just because they're there doesn't mean they're right but your friend still had the oppurtunity to read them and go somewhere else if he didn't like them but he didn't which means that he agreed to them, bottom line. I suggest to you Eric that you take Scott up on his offer to discuss this like an adult without the name calling and childish behavior or drop it.