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Board of Inquiry® This forum is provided exclusively for the discussion of specific persons or businesses in the herp industry. |
08-18-2016, 09:10 PM
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#91
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Unfortunately you are correct Craig, although we now live in a vast internet connected cyber world it seems the authorities are unable or unwilling to enter same said cyber world to pursue these criminals for what they see as small amounts.
Although somewhat straightforward in SOME states if it is a same state transaction, once it becomes interstate it becomes a whole legislative mess.
THIS is the reason I feel that most scammers can and do keep getting away with bs like this and keep repeating it on new victims
Which is just ONE reason the BOI is so darn effective and maybe could just save some fresh victim from actually being a victim.
Great work by all at Fauna I say!
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08-18-2016, 09:10 PM
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#92
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Well, if it helps, I am a criminal attorney. Albeit in state court (Florida), but I can't think that a knock on the door from his local sheriff wouldn't "encourage" him to work with you, further I am sure that returning your items or paying would be much better than a criminal conviction?!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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08-18-2016, 09:22 PM
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#93
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I can't figure out how to attach a screen shot to a pm. So I'll just post it here to answer someone's question from a pm.
There is no place to put a name in for the card holder when you do a CC charge manually. All that is required is the card numbers and the zipcode. That's it.
This is the PayPal Here app.
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08-19-2016, 01:02 AM
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#94
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Holy cow man.. I'm just a little 14 year old, but this needs to be checked out by someone! Like daNG. He obviously isn't very smart.. From the scamming to the grammar to the sheer derp. Dude, I wish you luck.
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08-19-2016, 04:55 AM
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#95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgcassano
prove up a theft!
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I'm thinking that there may be some barriers in obtaining a theft conviction. Theft requires that you prove all the elements beyond a reasonable doubt. The element of intent has to have been there from the beginning and one has to prove that. If someone gets the property of another and only later decides to keep it, that is not theft, but perhaps conversion.
See how neatly Jay sets up a defense by saying, after he received the critters, that they have MBD. Because there were no pictures of the critters by the seller at the time of sale, those who are listening to the account of what happened in order to decide the case may believe there might have been MBD, and therefore there may be a reasonable doubt that there was an initial intent to deprive, and the idea to deprive came about only after Jay saw the alleged MBD.
I'm certainly not standing up for Jay, I'm just pointing out that I think there may be some practical problems here getting a theft conviction.
And of course there is still the unauthorized use to work through.
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08-19-2016, 05:55 AM
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#96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Wyatt
He had paid me $300 the past night and is talking again about paying me more but can't seem to get his card to work. So he said just charge it for $500 the same way you did last night. Well I did and it went through no problem at all. At that point he owed me only $150 so I was finally comfortable that it all wasn't for nothing. We hang up the phone and I log into my PayPal account and guess what he conviently forgot to tell me on the phone. He did a freakin charge back for the first $300 from the night before!! So I contact him and say you need to undo your charge back for the $300. He plays stupid and acts like he has no clue what I'm talking about. He said he never filed a chargeback and had no clue how this happened. Well he called PayPal and pretty quickly the money was back in my account.
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I would think the fact that he did one charge back before he even finished paying shows he had intent to steal from Craig. Plus his reason for doing the charge backs was unauthorized use not the MBD. I'd think just like Craig would have to prove intent that Jay would have to prove they actually have MBD and that's going to be difficult without pictures prior to shipping, how can he prove the ones with MBD are the same animals Craig sent him. The whole criminal thing just sounds like it will be a never ending back and forth. Just take him to small claims court and get a judgement so if he ever works they can deduct it from his check and if he doesn't work it will forever be a negative mark on his credit score.
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08-19-2016, 06:00 AM
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#97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliasara
Jay would have to prove
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In a criminal case, Jay does not have to prove anything. The state has the burden of proving all elements beyond a reasonable doubt.
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08-19-2016, 06:50 AM
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#98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliasara
Plus his reason for doing the charge backs was unauthorized use
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Unauthorized use is a powerful consumer tool and can be difficult to fight. So, as you pointed out, it is separate from the MBD, and as such, provides an entirely different and additional defense.
It might be difficult to prove the requisite initial intent required for theft if there is a claim that the transaction was unauthorized.
I'm not saying the barriers are insurmountable, but I'm saying there are substantial difficulties, in my opinion.
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08-19-2016, 08:00 AM
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#99
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Craig, I also suggest getting the square app to accept CC over the phone; there are various other protections that PP doesn't offer. It can be linked to your bank & deposits are usually made within 2-3 days.
The problem with manual input of the CC is you do not have the physical card to look at & ask questions about. It is easier for the cardholder to claim unauthorized use.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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08-19-2016, 10:43 AM
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#100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake-Queen
Craig, I also suggest getting the square app to accept CC over the phone; there are various other protections that PP doesn't offer. It can be linked to your bank & deposits are usually made within 2-3 days.
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I spoke with another vendor about switching from PP to Square recently and he mentioned that Square wouldn't accept his business for live animal transactions.
PlusByEMS might, they accepted my firearm business where Square wouldn't.
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