Craig Hughes (twohy4you)

Well, it sucks that it had to come to this but it looks like there is no other way. Back in March my friend loaned me a Normal female to breed to my Ivory. We agreed on splitting the clutch 50/50. The Ivory never showed interest so we ended up pairing her to my male Huffman, but didn't discuss the details (regrettably, now). I figured we are friends, we'll figure it out later. So, she ovulates and things are going smooth. Before she lays I told him I expected she would lay around 6 eggs and asked how we would split the clutch since we didn't figure the details out.

I said a friend and I had spoken and we thought 1 Huffman and some normals would be fair to give to him for his contribution of the female normal. He responded to the message, but avoided the question - I took this as him being okay with that idea (as would any one, I would think?) Here is that info.



He never argued it, so I thought things were dandy. The female laid 5 eggs, which just hatched out about 2 weeks ago. There are 2 obvious Huffmans and 3 I am not sure on. I sent him a text saying I'd send pics of the boys so he could pick one (ONE). He never disputed that. So he picks his boy and I think things are going fine.

Fast forward to a few days ago... I tell him the baby he picked and one of the others shed and to go look at the photos. He did and asked me "what are we doing about the other 3?" to which I responded...



and his response, and my next response (mine is the top one)



so I get this today:



so I say...



and he then sends me something I said about 50/50 with the Ivory clutch, as if that is proof I agreed to 50/50 for the Huffman clutch (bottom, read up)



more...



Am I in the wrong here guys? I realize it is completely stupid not to get this in writing, and we should have discussed splitting the Huffman clutch before I introduced him to the female. I asked if he wanted me to try him on her but neither of us decided to re-hash the details. We are both at fault for that. I feel like an idiot, but I also feel like I am in the right in this situation, because I did ask him about splitting it and he never disputed what I said I thought was fair until long after they had hatched.

Input very welcome... Thanks guys.

i'm glad you posted this. lets get there opinions. your missing a couple let me pull them up.

I was the one that stated that a single Huffman would be more then fair for compensation. (Or at least one of them, I don't know how many people Abby asked)

Craig seems unreasonable to me. The original deal doesn't play in here any longer. If he were to sell the Huffman he would be 5 times further ahead of where he was if he sold the 2 YB's. IDK why hes complaining.

While I well know many on this Forum love nothing better than the drama of "she done him wrong" or vice versa, there is more than black and white in some instances.

Should there have been a nitty-gritty details discussion? Sure - though it appears that when some questions WERE posed by the breeder, they were not answered or acknowledged by the owner of the normal female. It is recommended never to do business with friends, and this might be an example of that warning. Abby figured "friends would figure it out". I am sure she regrets that assumption now.

The fact is, there is a huge value difference between the originally-planned breeding's possible offspring, and the offspring now in dispute. In my opinion, whether or not communication lack is the case, this is a no-brainer - you don't get high-end animals as an equal to mid-range morphs. Since Craig had many chances to respond to Abby's questions about this actual clutch, and didn't do so until time to actually receive his "take", I'd say he was manipulating the situation to try to get more than he deserves.

Doesn't matter what anyone else says - this is just someone wanting more than they deserve. Happens all the time.

Kathy Weeks

The owner of the female agreed to a fifty fifty split. The breeder tossed in a different male without any agreement of consent of any kind. Now the owner of the female is being told they'll take one snake and like it.

Who's being greedy again? Let's put friendship bias aside guys.

Originally Posted by Shadera

The owner of the female agreed to a fifty fifty split. The breeder tossed in a different male without any agreement of consent of any kind. Now the owner of the female is being told they'll take one snake and like it.

Who's being greedy again? Let's put friendship bias aside guys.

I never agreed to 50/50 on the Huffmans, and I asked him before putting the Huffman in with the female if that was okay and he said it was. I didn't do that secretly at all, why would I? The fault comes in where we didn't discuss the details of the new deal. I realize that sucks. But I did tell him beforehand I could use the Huffman if he wanted.

we are both in the wrong. should have got it in writing or not switched up males to begin with. no since in trying to run each other in the ground or anything just put a question up on the fauna post asking a question about breeding loans. didn't mention her name or anything and she brought it here. not me. but we will see what happens. still think i'm entitled to my 2 snakes.

Originally Posted by twohy4you

we are both in the wrong. should have got it in writing or not switched up males to begin with. no since in trying to run each other in the ground or anything just put a question up on the fauna post asking a question about breeding loans. didn't mention her name or anything and she brought it here. not me. but we will see what happens. still think i'm entitled to my 2 snakes.

I only posted because you threatened to take it to the BOI. You threw the first stone. I never would have brought it here without that threat, I can assure you

I have never loaned a female, but I have loaned my males, with writen out loan agreements as to how many females they would breed.
Here is my take on it.
Say there are 3 huffmans and 2 normals.
Each keeps one huffman and one normal. The remaining huffman is to be sold and the selling price spit even between the breeders. This seems the fairest from my perspective for a 50/50 split.
I personally have never asked for animals when loaning mine. I set a straight price per clutch my animals father, no matter the egg count. They pay me that set amount per fathered clutch and sell the babies born from it. That's just my 2 cents.

so me 2 huffmans you 3 then?