Something to think about in the future of reptiles

I was talking to a friend last night about who had booked tables for his reptile shows and what was going on with people we both know that I have not talked to in a while. At that point something I had been pondering for quite a while was really starting to make a very strong impression on me.

It used to be in the old days (well OK, I am not that old, my old days are 80's and 90's) that you had groups of specializations in the reptiles hooby and business. You had people who were hardcore about their niche and would only work in that niche. For instance, people who were into turtles only did turtles, same with spiders, chameleons, monitors, geckos, tortoises, frogs, etc. and many of those little clicks really thought that snakes were not for them and just better left to the snake guys.

Now we are at a point, because of the explosion of the ball python market, just about everybody who works with anything has dumped part or all of their other projects and moved to ball pythons. In fact just about every reptile pet store owner and reptiles show promoter I know is now working with ball pythons. It is just amazing. And while I am enthused that this all reinforces my choice to move more heavily in the ball pythons several years back, I am becoming concerned now about the down side of the trend having a pronounced negative effect on the business.

Let me explain. We were getting to a point where so many over-imported and high loss species like chameleons, dart frogs, tree frogs, etc., were being captive bred and you had a quality alternative to poor quality imports. And it was so encuraging that so many people were breeding so many diverse species of every kind of herp so that we could leave native populations and imports as a very small percentage of the hobby and pet trade and really become a more respected and more self conscious body of people. Now with the ball pythons taking over I am seeing so many people drop what they have been working on to go into ball pythons. As this is giving the industry a huge boom at this point, where will we get that variety of species again and how many species will no longer be available to the pet trade when they can no longer be imported or collected and nobody is breeding them.

This thought has really made me think about just how much things have changed in the past 15 years. There has never been a revolution in this industry like the ball python. I just hope that everybody will really consider being more diverse and keep working with other projects and not all become one trick ponies. I know that I will always need diversity in my collection to keep me excited and enthusiastic about each new season. Just my thoughts. What do you think? Evan

I think that for many it is NOT love of the reptile or amphibian that is the primary motivator.

It is the search for profit.

Bottom line for many, whether they admit it or not, is to make money.

For me personally Evan, I only work with and sell what I enjoy keeping. This is a hobby to me first, a love affair really. I have no desire to keep and sell stuff just to make a buck. That is not what this is all about for me. If I manage to make a living off of just selling what I like, then great. If not then that is good too. Because for me the money is truly secondary.

With that being said, the big shift we are seeing is that herps have shifted from predominately a hobby/passion to predominately a business. That is not necessarily a bad thing, but yes many of the good things about the old hobby ways of doing things will be lost. Or seriously diminished.

Hopefully there will be enough of us that will continue working with the animals we love and not just the ones that make us the most money. There is a happy median in there somewhere, I hope folks find it.

Originally Posted by shrap

Hopefully there will be enough of us that will continue working with the animals we love and not just the ones that make us the most money. There is a happy median in there somewhere, I hope folks find it.

I also hope that folks figure out that ball pythons are for wimps and that Cal. Kings are THE snake of the future. Then I also hope they find my website and buy LOTS of kingsnakes from me.

LOTS is the key word above as my average king is probably worth about $75.00.

I do like them though.

Evan that is a very good observation. Ball pythons are great snakes, though like Wes said

Originally Posted by Wilomn

I think that for many it is NOT love of the reptile or amphibian that is the primary motivator.

It is the search for profit.

Bottom line for many, whether they admit it or not, is to make money.

The snakes I breed are more than a hobby to me. I am not out to get rich quick. I share what I have with others, I do presentations to teach the truth and remove the fairy tales surronding reptiles. I would not like to think of what the reptile shows will be like in the upcoming years if everone is breeding ball pythons. After you have seen the first booth you are done and can go home. Diversity is what I enjoy at the shows.

Originally Posted by Wilomn

I also hope that folks figure out that ball pythons are for wimps and that Cal. Kings are THE snake of the future. Then I also hope they find my website and buy LOTS of kingsnakes from me.

No way. Kenyan sand boas are THE snake of the future. Oh wait, maybe it's Amazon tree boas. Or cape gopher snakes.

I have to admit something. I have recently bought my first het. albino ball python and I'm thinking of buying a pair of het. piebalds. But my main reason for doing so is the fact that I really like albinos and pieds. I will never be able to drop 5k on a single animal so I figure I'll make my own. What has helped me most is that I have a friend who does have these morphs and is willing to sell 100% hets for my price. (call that cheap) I paid $100 for my het. albino male and he has a 1.1 pr of het. pieds. My price is $800.

Evan, I agree. I like my two Bps, I'm going the long way around to get my self a pied. I've wanted one sence I first layed eyes on it. I look at the Bp market like aftermarket parts for your vehicle. Customizing your car, theres enough Bp morphs to pick one thats all you, your color, your pattern, ect.
and I think that gave the Bp market its jumpstart, create-a-morph. A Pied goes for what $5,000-7,000 really why so much, my tops is around 500.00, I'm not in it for the money I'm in it for the snake, on day I hope to own a pied, it will be awile... thats my 2cents <!-- / message --><!-- sig --><!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

I would like to know how many people, having sold their collection of herps, or used their student loan money, or ran up a huge credit card bill or taken a second mortgage on their house to make that leap into "the next level", are successful. Only a few years ago it looked like there were three, maybe one or two more "top tier breeders" of ball pythons who had those high dollar ball morphs. Now the "for sales" here, at KS and I'm sure elsewhere are filled with flashy websites from names I've never heard of, with no experience, credibility and even some times not even knowing how to spell the morph they have. The fact that you can go online or go to a show and see an animal listed at 7 grand, 16 grand, $50,000 and more will continue to draw people in hoping to make that "one score", and live happily ever after in a big mansion paid for by a genetic quirk. It's like every other get rich quick scheme you see; if it were that simple, EVERYONE would be doing it and WE ALL would be millionaires. It's just not that simple. The sad thing is there is a lack of passion, and passion for whatever you may keep is what makes our community strong. It becomes all about the Benjamins...

To those of you making it work, who've put the time, dedication and complete passion for ball pythons that they have to have to maintain at that level, my hat is off to you. It's hard not to be a bit jealous when you see those kind of numbers...Like hundreds (thousands) of folks i've played the numbers over and over in my head, contemplated that big credit card bill or considered the loan, but there really is more to it than just making that big score, laying out that cash and watching it grow, and there's more to being a member of the community also...........

Last rant...it does get tiresome hearing folks try to "justify" paying 35000 dollars for a "fire" ball because bp's "only lay 4-5 eggs"...thats a crock...successful ball python breeders, raise your hands if you have females that produce consistent 6, 7, 10 egg clutches...I thought so

They are worth $35000 because people will pay $35000 for it. What happens after they start breathing again, looking at that second mortgage in a rubbermaid tub, thats the real $35000 question.




ps I have "cka" line hypo corns and even....shhhh..."cka" ghosts....$3500/$15000, but email me angnchris@earthlink.net, we can work something out, i promise...but the real market...the "next big score"...black rats...beautiful, jet black black rat snakes...you heard it here, first, and you can thank me later...see y'all in Chicago ;*)

I think you guys make good points and we need people such as yourselves to stay at that hobby level and work with these animals for love and devotion to those animals. My personal credo is similar to what's being said here. I only work with animals that I like and can enjoy being around constantly. When I get bored with something I need to get rid of that project and move on to something else. That is the main reason I still have some boas, monitors and colubrids.

It is hard to find fault in the ball python though. Think about these points:

1) it is a foreign or "exotic" species so it is exempt from all these nasty native animal and endangered/protected animal laws that have caused so many people so many problems with the black rats, turtles, etc.

2) many cities and states are using the old 6' laws, stating that you can not legally keep any snakes over 6' in that state or city, so again, the ball slides in under that legislation

3) the are low maintenance compared to many other herps

4) they are almost always docile and polite animals, rarely striking unless a feeding response is involved

5) there are now over 100 proven genetic mutations with dozens more to follow each year for the next several years, at least

So they really are a great fit for this new era of government crackdowns and serious investments

Personally, I really enjoy having ball pythons. Every time I look at my pieds or hypos or something else, even after having the animals for years, they still look great and make me look forward to all the new projects down the road. It is hard not to like them.

i would like to think that MOST people who are into the bp are in them for the bp, not the money, i live in Washington state and in king county where i live there are so many laws and rules to what you can and can not have, but i do agree with you its hard to find any faults with the bp, i just started in these guys not more then 2 weeks ago, i didn't know about the more expensive morphs out there until i started doing reserch on these guys, think my limit on spending is about $500 for one and then it would have to be somthing i really REALLY love, sigh any chances the spiders will ever get to $500? but in all reality i love the normal bp jus for the diifrent patterns on each and everyone