Jeff Barringer quote - am I reading this right?

This is a quote made by Mr. Steve Ori in a thread in the BOI:

I talked to Jeff Barringer and this is what he had to say about this site!!!!!!!!!!

>>>--- Jeff Barringer wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>The BOI is not our site. Not only is it
>>>>not our site, it is a web address that has been
>>>>blocked from being posted anywhere to our site
>>>>beacuse of the repeated and continued libel
>>>>and slander regarding our business, our vendors,
>>>>our users, and our staff.
>>>>
>>>>We are not involved with, part of, affiliated
>>>>with, or do business on any level with anyone
>>>>connected to that web site. We neither support
>>>>nor condone the activities that occur on the BOI.

You can take it or leave it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sincerely,
Steve Ori
A Forgotten Realm


__________________
Steve Ori

A Forgotten Realm

If I am interpretting this right, not only has Jeff Barringer banned any mention of THIS site on his kingsnake.com site, but he is also extending the grudge to my SerpenCo.com site as well. This is my opinion based on him neglecting to send me a renewal for my storefont link on his page. True, maybe it was just an oversight on his part, but I had been expecting something like that, and felt that trying to contact Mr. Barringer for an explanation would have been a fruitless effort. Any emails I have sent him lately have gone unanswered.

And let's analyze that quote a little bit, in context to the above situation:

>>>>We are not involved with, part of, affiliated
>>>>with, or do business on any level with anyone
>>>>connected to that web site.

How literally should this be interpretted? Obviously SerpenCo.com is connected to this site via my ownership of both sites. But only to the extent that I have a link on my SerpenCo.com site to FaunaClassifieds, and have a return link from here to SerpenCo.com via a couple of banner ads and the sponsor graphic.

What is meant by "connected"?

Does this mean that anyone whom advertises on this site, or has a link on their page to this one is not allowed to do business with kingsnake.com? Does this mean any or all of the banner advertisers here as well? If you are a member/visitor here, will you be denied opening a business account at that site?

I don't know, but it sounds to me that somewhere in all this there must be a line that divides Jeff just being downright unfriendly, and perhaps doing something that just might not be legal, in my opinion. Yeah, I know it is his site and all, but if a person owns a virtual monopoly on the internet trade in reptiles, and knowingly and (I want to say maliciously, but that seems a bit strong - so how about callously) bans people from his site, in some instances cutting them off from a substantial portion of their income, isn't he skirting some major legal jeopardy by doing that? In my case, it was because of my refusal to delete a thread posted by Adam Block that mention of this site was blocked, and now, apparently, my business relationship via SerpenCo.com has been blocked as well. All because I refused to bow to the demands of the owner of kingsnake.com that I do to MY site what he wanted me to do.

I mean, do you suppose that there are some people whom wanted to get banner ads here, but were threatened with banishment from kingsnake.com if they did so? Or were there other sites sporting links to FaunaClassifieds.com that were demanded to have them removed? Certainly such actions as these can't be legal, can they? If someone is not allowed to open a business account with kingsnake.com solely based on their association with this site, isn't that engaging in extortive practices?

Say, how about a trip to GOOGLE.COM to look up the word extortion? Now I'm curious....

Extortion:

T.P.I. -- CRIM. 11.04

EXTORTION

Any person who commits the offense of extortion is guilty of a crime.

For you to find the defendant guilty of this offense, the state must have proven beyond a reasonable doubt the existence of the following essential elements:1

[Part A:

(1) that the defendant intended to obtain [property] [services] [any advantage] [immunity] from another person;

and
(2) that the defendant did so by the use of coercion.]

or
[Part B:

(1) that the defendant intended to unlawfully restrict another's freedom of action;

and
(2) that the defendant did so by the use of coercion.]

"Intent" means that a person acts intentionally with respect to the nature of the conduct or to a result of the conduct when it is the person's conscious objective or desire to engage in the conduct or cause the result.2

"Obtain" means to:

[(i) Bring about a transfer or purported transfer of property or of a legally recognized interest therein, whether to the defendant or another;]

or
[(ii) Secure the performance of service].3

"Property" means anything of value, including but not limited to [money] [real estate] [tangible or intangible personal property (including anything severed from land)] [library material] [contract rights] [chose-in-action] [interest in or claim to wealth] [credit] [admission or transportation tickets] [captured or domestic animals] [food and drink] [electric or other power].4

"Services" includes [labor] [skill] [professional service] [transportation] [telephone] [mail] [gas] [electricity] [steam] [water] [cable television] [other public services] [accommodations in hotels] [restaurants or elsewhere] [admissions to exhibitions] [use of vehicles or other movable property].5

"Immunity" means freedom from duty or penalty.6

"Coercion" means a threat, however communicated, to:

[(A) Commit any offense;] or

[(B) Wrongfully accuse any person of any offense;] or

[(C) Expose any person to hatred, contempt or ridicule;] or

[(D) Harm the credit or business repute of any person;] or

[(E) Take or withhold action as a public servant or cause a public servant to take or withhold action].7

"Unlawfully" means contrary to law or unauthorized by law; disobeying or disregarding the law.8


FOOTNOTES
1. Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-14-112(a).
2. Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-11-106(a)(18).
3. Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-11-106(a)(24)(A). "Obtain" includes, but is not limited to, the taking, carrying away or the sale, conveyance or transfer of title to or interest in or possession of property, and includes, but is not limited to, conduct heretofore known as larceny, larceny by trick, larceny by conversion, embezzlement, extortion or obtaining property by false pretenses. Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-11-106(a)(24)(B).
4. Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-11-106(a)(28).
5. Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-11-106(a)(34).
6. Black's Law Dictionary (5th Ed. 1979).
7. Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-11-106(a)(3).
8. Black's Law Dictionary (5th Ed. 1979).

Well, it's from the legal codes in Tennessee, but I guess it will suffice.

Does the shoe fit?

So here's my question: Has Jeff Barringer actually done what he is implying in that email to Mr. Steve Ori? Has he refused to do business with anyone "connected" to this website? Other than me, of course. Or is this, perhaps, an implied threat for his future actions?

Quite frankly, I would like to know if this is true or not. If you have been subjected to that treatment, or know of someone whom has, please contact me privately. I think this is something I should know about. Just out of curiosity, of course.

Sure sounds like JeffB is getting downright unfriendly towards my little site, though, doesn't it?

Just to let you know, posting about SerpenCo is NOT blocked. I was able to post a mention of it with no problems to the kingsnake.com cornsnake forum.

-Kat Hall

Well, that is a surprise!

I was wondering what he was going to do about my CORNSNAKES.com website....

But maybe he has caught enough flak about banning and overzealous moderators that he has backed off a bit on that.

Rich did ya ever think that just maybe Jeff wanted you to extend a favor to him that you had already extended to Adam. I asked you about it several times "Adam Block this is hows hes been treating" as of the last time I asked you about that thread it had been removed from these boards. Everytime I asked you about it you skated around the question. There was info in there that showed Adam was selling sick and dehydrated animals the very thing he accused NERD of doing. I have an email in my box from the person who started the thread who also was wondering where the thread they started, that didnt violate your TOS, had gone. They also put a fair amount of time into looking for it and making sure it was gone prior to emailing me. So since you were doing favors for a theif why not do some favors for someone who helped you get your boards up and going way back when?

I dont have time to look for it and really dont care but a while back in the disscussion forum you said something to the likes of "I just want to keep kingsnake on the front burner in front of everyone" like I said thats not a word for word qoute but to the best of my memory, is that still your opinion or are you getting desperate to grab advertisers from ksnake. this thread seems perfectly timed to me because I have seen several of your advertisers head over to ksnake here lately. Are you a little upset about that?

If Jeff doesnt want to do buisness with you rich thats his right. Same as its your right to continue to make yourself look desperate by dragging this around some more.

Look at how small the " I hate ksnake" group has gotten. Every couple weeks YOU have to find some generic reason to drag up ksnake aside from you and a couple people no one else cares. No one else takes the time to reply and only a few even bother to read any more. I know since ive replied there will be 5 or 6 people who have to jump in right away and tell me how wrong I am but thats expected. My point is even those people who certainly will respond to this dont even bother with any of the other threads anymore. Everyone is getting board, let it go. If you really want this site to grow let it go, if people find it worth while it will grow on its own. But I can assure you that you are not going to get you desired responce by slamming the compititon.

My last point Rich is if you can extend a favor to one Adam Block=theif and delete or hide or do whatever you did with that thread. You gotta expect others to want the same favor extended to them. So let it go.

Actually there is a correction.
This thread was not timed for anything.
This thread was brought up because someone else brought it up.
Someone went talking to Jeff and the guy wrote it on here. We where perfectly happy not talking about KS. Like you said, I do not care. But someone else brought this up.

If Jeff doesnt want to do buisness with you rich thats his right

I agree with you on this. But that was not the point he was getting at. What he was trying to accomplish was to get to the depths of the wording "We are not involved with, part of, affiliated with, or do business on any level with anyone connected to that web site."

Because if people who come here are not welcome on his site.......then that means you to.
and the people who advertise here who might want to advertise there.
And a moderator who has not broken any TOS

see what I am saying.

In fact I was the one who told him to post that.
He asked if he should.....I said go ahaed and post it.

Not doing business with Rich is okay it is his right
Not doing business with me is also okay....even though I did not break any classified TOS
Not doing business with someone who advertises here..........is NOT okay.
Not doing business with people who happen to be members here....IS NOT OKAY.
Not doing business with people who happen to visit here every once in a while is NOT OKAY
Not doing business with someone because they have the faunaclassifieds link on their page is NOT OKAY.

If Jeff decided to Ban someone just because they are a member here....That is wrong. That is also business suicide.

You do not see Rich kicking me off his site just because I have the kingsnake link in my classifieds page.

See the point?
It is not about Rich.
It is about the people. Protecting the people.
As far as the thread about Adam.....you sure the guy started a thread? Maybe he put it into one of the other threads. Or maybe there were countless threads going on already about Adam that he just erased it. Because starting to many Threads when there are countless threads CURRENTLY active will get that thread erased. Or maybe the guy did not write his name.

I think I remember the thread you are talking about. And if memory serves me right (it hasn;t been lately) then the person started it around the same time all the other commotion about Adam was going on.

Wait Rich.

I think I answered our question.

If Jeff decided to Ban someone just because they are a member here....That is wrong. That is also business suicide.

You imagine how many people he would have to ban?
That would not be very smart.
I know PLENTY members here who have classified accounts and banner accounts over there.
Jeff will loose LOTS of money if he didn't do business with anyone connected to this site. That is 3,324 members. Also some people are not members (that I know of) but do have banners here.

So I think he may have exagerated a little when he wrote that.

I think he just means me and you. And the other guys he banned who started their own forum.

Hey, welcome back Jason!

As for that Adam Block thread, sorry but I don't have a clue what you are talking about. Evidently it must be a bigger target in your radar then it is in mine. But I don't delete ANY threads as a favor to anyone, and have not in the past. So if there was a thread posted about Adam Block, then it is still here. Was it on THIS version of the BOI, or an earlier one? I have two of the three systems available for viewing. The very first one, I still have all the files, but have not had time to index them so the search function will work, and consequently have not put it up here for viewing yet.

But in any event, since Jeff afterwards blocked mention of my site on kingsnake.com after I refused to delete that thread, it REALLY doesn't sound like a friendly casual request for a favor, now does it? Matter of fact, it brings up that "extortion" word into my mind again, for some reason. I can almost hear the gravelly voice in an Italian accent saying "If you would like to keep your site being mentioned on kingsnake.com, I would consider it a very large favor if you would delete that thread by Adam Block."

Matter of fact, if Jeff HAD asked me as a favor, although I still wouldn't have deleted it, I could have at least talked to Adam to try to get him to tone it down a bit. I have done that before with another guy that was getting Jeff's goat with an avatar he posted on my site.

But anyway, back to the Adam Block thread, if you give me some more clues about the thread, I'll see if I can find it for you. Do you at least know whom started it? Some identifying keywords? Anything to go on at all?

Desperate for advertisers? Yeah, right. I had to shut down availability of the horizontal banner because I am at the limit I want to be to give everyone of them enough impressions to make it worth while for them. And I had two more inquiries just today from other people interested in advertising. So yeah, I am REAL desperate. And people are STILL donating to this site as well. Yeah, I'm desperate alright.... And why should I care if someone advertisers on ks as well as here? It's not like I need to have any exclusive rights or anything. I think *someone* else is more inclined to think that way than I am.

Since some of the banners are advertising shows that take place over the next month, yes there will be some more vacancies, but I think everything is humming along nicely now as it is.

I post messages as new or interesting information crosses in front of my eyes. There are no ulterior motives, as you apparently would like to believe. But I know better than to try to change your opinion about anything, so you just go ahead and think whatever you like.

I didn't realize there was a "I hate kingsnake.com" group, much less a reason to keep a scorecard on it. Are you maintaining a list of people in this group for Jeff?

So if you have anything constructive to add to this site, then you are welcome to do so. But if you are interested in trying to get into another pissing duel with me, then don't waste your time. I don't have the time to bother with your opinions right now. Got lots of new things I'm working on, and probably none of them are really of any interest to you anyway.

Give Jeff my regards.

I think Jeff has decided not to work with Rich Z. personally (this includes all his related sites). This is his right as owner of the company providing services. You'd have a hard time proving KS had a monopoly (I sell a limited number of animals via direct advertisement on that site [I do promote our supplies through that site] and still do well through other marketing venues both online and off). This site has increased the number of members and sponsors in the last 4 months with no need of KS. Why bother looking back and wondering what the other guy is doing? Take what your building here and run with it.

Dan, you know, you are absolutely right.

Obviously Jeff has his people checking in here often enough to see what is going on, since it didn't take long for one of them to pipe up here.

But yeah, I have too many irons in the fire to be even thinking about what Jeff is up to. Maybe at one time he would have had an impact on my business, but that has passed on by. I guess it does worry me some that there are an awful lot of people that have all their eggs in one basket, though. Some people will take advantage of that fact, I believe. I'm offering the water and telling the horses where it is. They can either drink, or not.

Thanks, Dan.

yeah I think the quote by Jeff was just a "caught up in the moment" quote.

I don't really think he meant to say ANYONE associated with this site.

Because Dan there is a perfect example of someone who has an account over at KS

Also Jason is a member here and has an account at KS.

So I think the people are safe.
It might just be meant against you and me or just you.
To me it does not matter.
I must be getting old..... the way I am feeling right now is as long as everyone is happy...who cares.
You are doing good here so who cares.