Alterna Rush the movie, Small Scale Films, Dan Krull

My name is Alejandro Lozano. I've known Dan Krull for nearly a decade. I have watched over the years as Dan has attempted to make Small Scales Films work, specifically Alterna Rush. I have never seen a greater sacrifice of time and money from ANY of our fellow herpetoculturists/herpetologists in order to create the documentary, Alterna Rush, which was being created for the benefit of our hobby and community as a whole. The pre-emptive sales of the movie were in no way to steal money from anyone and I myself have donated my art and a decent amount of money to help support the project.

As a non-for-profit, the sales were for use on the needs of the non-for-profit and Dan was always very clear that it was still in production and that the money that was being given for the future release was money being used in order to HAVE a future release. Without those sales/donations from people, he wouldn't have been able to create as much footage and do as many of the things that he did do. That being said, the cost of filming, traveling, technical support, time, etc., is not cheap.

Not enough people donated/supported the project therefore ensureing it's incapability to proceed, at least for now. I have confidence that eventually this labor of love will finally be finished and I'm sure that those that supported it will receive their copy. Dan has commented many times stating that he will repay the purchases of those dvd sales/donations. That isn't a question, it is fact, and it's not something that needs to be addressed in this forum any longer. Nor is the question of his 501(c)(3) per my previous post.

In regards to Dan's hognose breeding... that has absolutely nothing to do with this post. Why was it even brought up? If not as an attempt to falsify and attack Dan's character. He has hundreds of pictures online that he took of his own collection and posted of his animals breeding, laying, hatching, etc. He breeds snakes and like EVERY breeder, adds stock, many times with the intention of selling a few to make the investment worthy. Therefore, a few of his friends posting here and his own testimony as to what he does and who he is, is no "popularity contest" or "self aggrandizing" as a couple have implied erroneously. He is merely stating facts and his facts are supported by the amount of people that support who is he.

What this hobby needs is more people like Dan Krull. It doesn't need any more people that try to pick fights for no reason. These people are a mockery of our hobby and are part of the reason that we can't get laws changed. Without standing together and supporting each other, we will never better our community.

Originally Posted by Snake-Queen

If he received the letter this summer, 3 years would make 2011 when it was last active. Which is the time when Small Scale Films was active.

Actually small scale films inc. was formed in 2009. I believe the dates are very relevant in this.

Originally Posted by Emerald Exotics

What this hobby needs is more people like Dan Krull. It doesn't need any more people that try to pick fights for no reason. These people are a mockery of our hobby and are part of the reason that we can't get laws changed. Without standing together and supporting each other, we will never better our community.

My point exactly, we do not need to be bickering among ourselves when we are constantly under attack. I don't see the point of attacking a person over personal reasons ... which is what it appears Gregg is doing.

Everything that has been asked has been answered. I see no reason to dissect every scrap of information as a lie. That has no point, except to continue the witch hunt.

I'm still waiting for people to come forward and say that Dan scammed them. If you cannot produce those people, then you are making baseless accusations.

I may not have read all the back and forth bickering and FB drama, but I do not see where anyone has been scammed.

Originally Posted by Gregg M

Actually small scale films inc. was formed in 2009. I believe the dates are very relevant in this.

Perhaps, but Dan has posted more proof than you, so I will believe him when he says that it was a 501c3 at the time.

I hope I'm not the only one who thinks this thread is becoming redundant. Dan, despite his computer limitations, seems to have answered questions sufficiently. It only seems that those maintaining the negativity in this thread have personal grudges with Dan, and that's it. If doesn't seem that these grudges are relevant to this thread anymore.

Gregg, ultimately what is your point? You're clearly sounding like a broken record with your comments and lack of substantial evidence.

Originally Posted by mqbuchanan

I spoke with Dan and he updated me on the status, no issue here and excited to see it when I recieve it. Glad it got cleared up.

This is a quote from the Original Poster of this thread, #5.

Originally Posted by Snake-Queen

If you were a regular on the boards ... or even read post #110 by Webslave, you would know my intent.

Actually no, that's a faulty assumption. I saw that Rich had made that specifically known prior to Dan's post and I had given Dan enough credit to be able to comprehend and abide by those rules. Apparently he was unable to do so and I was not privy to whether Dan did or did not receive any infractions because of his incorrect posting of his screen shots.

Originally Posted by Snake-Queen

I do not know either Gregg or Dan, this whole post is reminiscent of the witch hunts of yore.

Perhaps, perhaps not.

I'm not going to make any excuses for Gregg nor his behavior here. All I can say is that I do not agree with how he addressed the issues nor condone his earlier attitude here. But as you can see, he is trying a different approach now. So I will give him credit for that!

With that said...

This thread was originally started by someone who had done business with Dan in regards to the Alterna Rush movie. Actually there have been many inquiries from people on several forums including www.fieldherpforum.com, www.kingsnake.com, www.facebook.com and of course here www.faunaclassifieds.com.

Considering that Dan was actively promoting the sales of a product that he never delivered and received numerous monies for said product, I don't think it's as much of a witch hunt as it's being made out to be.

Sure, perhaps Gregg's overzealous nature got the best of him, and knowing him as I do, he does tend to come off as a bit of a bully. However, that shouldn't detract from the real matter, the fact that people paid Dan money for products that they never received and some were basically ignored for around 2 years until they started coming out of the woodwork and onto the forums wondering if they had been ripped off or not.

Originally Posted by Snake-Queen

Seems to me, Dan is guilty of mismanagement ... who is perfect in that aspect? I do not see the intent on scamming people out of money. I have read many BOI threads, Dan doesn't come off as someone who would intentionally scam people.

So let me ask you this, how do you define mismanagement?

Dan intentionally solicited the sales of a product that he did not have nor has ever had. He accepted payments for said product from an undisclosed amount of people. The money that he took in has never been accounted for. The payments that were sent should have been set aside until the DVD's were either made and shipped out. When the DVD plan was ultimately shelved, the money should have been instantly refunded, but apparently it wasn't. The question is, what happened to those people's money? Was it spent? It would seem so. What was it spent for? There's been no accountability for that. I don't call that mismanagement, I call that theft!

Put yourself in the same scenario. Let's say that someone is soliciting the pre-sale of a movie that you wish to purchase. You go ahead and send the money waiting for the item to be sent to you, it never is. After a period of time, you inquire about your item or at least getting a refund. You are now informed that not enough orders were made, so your payment has now become considered a "donation" and hopefully in the future you "might" receive what you initially paid for, maybe. Or perhaps you can later watch it on YouTube for free!

Would that be acceptable to you? Is that how businesses should be run? Do you not consider that criminal in any way?

Well, that's what has seemed to happen with this whole Alterna Rush ordeal based on what I have seen.

Originally Posted by Rextiles

Dan intentionally solicited the sales of a product that he did not have nor has ever had. He accepted payments for said product from an undisclosed amount of people. The money that he took in has never been accounted for. The payments that were sent should have been set aside until the DVD's were either made and shipped out. When the DVD plan was ultimately shelved, the money should have been instantly refunded, but apparently it wasn't. The question is, what happened to those people's money? Was it spent? It would seem so. What was it spent for? There's been no accountability for that. I don't call that mismanagement, I call that theft!

I'm just not seeing scam/theft in this. "Mismanagement" may very well be much closer to the mark; and I'm not even sure I'd go that far, if lack of sufficient funding ended up being the main reason for the movie not being released. It seems noteworthy that you and Gregg are here yelling "scam" - with Gregg mentioning a "ton of people" "complaining" on other forums; while you reference "many inquiries" - yet I'm not really seeing anyone who contributed/bought the ill-fated DVD making their way here and chiming in to demand any recompense. I have a fair amount of trouble believing that Gregg wouldn't have managed to wrangle up some disgruntled buyers/investors and lead them here to post, if so many people feel that they were wronged. I'm not saying that people should have to beat down his door to get their refund; but if those who actually lost money aren't particularly concerned about it, I don't really see why we should be.

I think that the whole DVD aspect is a good bit more nebulous than you're choosing to acknowledge. It seems overly self-serving and misleading to try to make this situation even remotely analogous to a snake sale, where money needs to be held until the buyer has received their animal. Seeing as this was apparently a grassroots endeavor within a niche community, it seems fairly likely that it may have been common knowledge that people were buying/contributing to a work in progress - to the making of which their funds may be directly allocated. Do you have any evidence that would contest that idea? Not sure how you can justify the implication that he was wrong to spend the money wherever he saw fit.

It seems kinda hard to make a case for refunds taking too long, when there doesn't seem to have been a definitive timetable involved for the release of the DVD. He does claim to still be working on it. When you say that people were "basically ignored for around 2 years," what exactly do you mean? They didn't receive any general updates; or he actively avoided their attempts at contact? Proof of the latter would be more damning, obviously. Anyway, he does seem to intend to return people's monies.

Originally Posted by Dan Krull

About 50 people pre paid for dvds. Most of them definitely saw their gift as a purchase, which is why I feel it is important to give them refunds.

...over 500 dollars of donations have been returned, and I am slowly going down the list in the order they were received.

Although things don't seem to be happening as quickly as you want; Dan doesn't seem to be disavowing anything, which makes it harder to make the case that this was a scam. If you're intending to dispute that he's actually made any effort to issue any refunds, maybe he'll be willing to provide canceled checks or PayPal screenshots to corroborate his statement. He could also see if those who've received a refund would be willing to come here and publicly state they the refund was made, if it would come to that.

In a situation like this, I'm not really sure that it's your place to decide when refunds should be provided. Since the 501c3 situation seems to have been settled - pending better pictures - I guess you had to move on to something, though. Until I see people here clamoring for their money back, I don't think the refund aspect is much of a valid reason to kick the guy in the nuts. When your contentions are juxtaposed with the aforementioned lack of public refund demands or allegations of impropiety by those directly effected - here where we could see them - I think it'd be a faulty assumption for readers to believe that you're here in any capacity other than another opportunist with an axe to grind. Albeit a much more eloquent one than Gregg.

All that being said, I'm definitely not putting Dan up on any pedestals, as I do get a vague used car salesman vibe from him. Calling in the sock puppets was also pretty lame. I just think that you and Gregg have done a fine job of making him look like the least of all involved evils. I have no interest in bandwagons; I'm nobody's fanboy. I'm fairly sure that I didn't even know Dan existed before this thread was bumped. This just really does have a bit of that old, familiar witch-hunt reek.

Dan (Fangthane) your post summed up my points and feelings exactly.

Troy, your comparison is far from what happened here, as most movies you would buy are for profit & Alterna Rush was to be produced by a non-profit.

Originally Posted by Dan Krull

About 50 people pre paid for dvds. Most of them definitely saw their gift as a purchase, which is why I feel it is important to give them refunds.

Dan

Originally Posted by Dan Krull

Also, I was in the process of reassembling Alterna Rush from the damaged hard drive when my editing computer failed. I managed to finish and post this scene before then.
http://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=arXgLmPLzl8

I have recently begun using the maker's space at my local library to edit footage. It is slow going, as I am teaching myself Final Cut X (previously I was using version 7) I am confident that this free service provided by our local library system will be the salvation of the five short films and Alterna Rush. I will never quit. I will see those stories told.
Thanks,
Dan

OK, so sooner or later the DVD buyers are going to get refunds. The OP had every right to ask, and Dan has addressed the issue. (I have to admit that the few days he did not show up and say something, I was wondering if he would avoid doing so, but ultimately he did respond, and addressed everything.)

Getting backing and producing a movie about anything, let alone reptiles which have a somewhat smaller audience than big star action movies is not easy. Many, many people get backing and never attain box office success.
Now that he has come here and given satisfactory explanations I'm hoping that this year he will sell enough snakes to clear up the DVD pre sells and have money left over to keep on working on his films.

Life hands all of us a lot of setbacks. I admire the 'never quit' outlook.