Eastern Indigo Hatchlings

This person just seems to think that if there are some for sale, then they must be overpriced. And of course, they must not sell for the going rate if the largest producer of couperi in the country actually has some in stock.

Hey Wes,...is that one of mine? Looks very good!

As for calling Marcia an idiot,...well,...I call'em like I see'em. And I do not resort to name calling very often. In fact this is a first. Anyone who reads this thread can, and probably would draw the same conclusion. And none of us are trying to win a debate or emerge victorious from this mess. Were just trying to get through that thick skull of yours! But now I don't think that's possible. I think your mind is made up. The only way it will ever change is for you to jump through the same hoops that I have, and experience what I have ,as far as acquiring, raising, breeding, hatching, starting, selling, and loosing couperi. You just won't get it unless you walk a mile in my moccasins. But you won't do that, because,...once again,...you are too stubborn. You'd rather bitch about it endlessly. You want to stir up a big stink, and continue to plink away at your computer for hours and hours, and page after page of incorrect rationalizations, and flawed logic,... and argue with those who HAVE walked mile after mile in those moccasins. So yes,...you are an idiot. And I'd be willing to bet that I know why you have a diamond ring that you want to trade for couperi. I'd bet that your former future husband flew the coop because he got sick and tired of your ignorance and stubbornness, and your know it all attitude. In fact he was so sick of it, that he didn't even want the ring back did he. As for couperi, I'm glad you don't have any. The species does not need people like you. It needs dedicated breeders who are willing to LEARN. It is unfortunate that you even got into Texans. Somebody like you would be better off with morphmutts. I don't know which is worse, your ignorance, or your arrogance. When someone who knows nothing about a subject argues endlessly with those who do, and they refuse to get some couperi, and figure out what we are trying to tell them,and they go on and on for page after page...then yes,... that person qualifies for the status of IDIOT! And quite possibly a few other choice names. So do us all a BIG favor,...DON"T EVER get couperi! As for your diamond ring, I think you know what I'm thinking you should do with that. And now that I think about it, maybe I'll raise my prices to $2000 each for neonate couperi, just to make sure I keep you out of them. Now do us all a favor and go free handle a Mamba or something. As for me, I'm done with this. There is no point in talking to someone who already knows it all. Adios.
T.
T.

Now if we could just get Tony to stop being so shy and reserved.

Well, at least this gives some insite into the mind of the Eastern keeper.. Here's what started this whole thread:

Do you produce a huge number of these every year or is this just a snake that's very hard to sell as I've seen you listing them for months now.. I'm asking because while I'm very interested in getting a trio of them I don't wanna deal with a snake that can't be sold.. Also, what is the reason for such a raise in price as I would guess that it's not demand due to you having to place so many ads to sell them.. I'm not being rude here so please don't take it that way, I'm honestly interested but just don't have the time to post ad after ad to sell a snake that doesn't produce large numbers of eggs as it is..

Seems like these are all valid points and questions.. There are currently four people trying to sell easterns on kingsnake.. Some, like Cliff Miller only had 5 or 6 animals and are still posting ads.. These same people have been posting for months now, in some cases 4 months!

I think the response I've gotten to these questions from somebody new to Drys is paramount to my points mentioned later.. You can't answer why the price has gone up, you deny that the snakes don't sell despite the same people trying over and over again to sell them..

Honestly, I now understand why Doug isn't going to work with them anymore and why the snakes don't sell.. There's a reason that people get this deffensive about something, if I didn't have valid points you would be content just ignoring them..

You have my word, I WILL NEVER WORK WITH EASTERNS!!!

We did answer why the price has gone up. You're just too stubborn, or stupid to let it sink in. Either that or you aren't paying attention.

Don't try and judge how well they sell by watching the classifieds. That's not an accurate method.They sell just fine. But you'll never know, because you won't try it. Although you did want to try it when you posted an add wanting to trade a diamond ring for couperi. Now you are just bent out of shape because nobody would trade with you. And even if they don't sell fast, I don't mind. I'm content to keep every couperi I produce. I don't breed them to make money. I breed them because I love them. Although, like I keep telling you,...I have folks pestering me for couperi all the time. You seem to be overtly preoccupied with selling them, and making money. We told you,...couperi isn't a good species to raise for profit. The overhead is too high, and propagating this species is very problematic, especially when a female dies from egg binding. You say you'll never work with easterns,...GOOD!!! I'll remember you said that. You'll NEVER BUY ANY FROM ME!!! Now go play with your diamond ring and stick your head down a rattlesnake burrow!

It is unfortunate that someone as thick headed as yourself has acquired any drymarchon at all. You should stick to garter snakes, or something extremely deadly, and aggressive. We could only hope to be that lucky. Of all the people posting on this thread YOU are the only one who is wrong. For whatever reason you just don't see it. And YOU are the only one who doesn't see it. Or maybe you do but you're just in denial. You remind me of the guy who posted a pic of himself free handling a cottonmouth with his bare hands, and asking, "is this a good idea"? Then when everyone told him what a stupid thing to do that was,...and gave him numerous reasons why it was a stupid thing to do, he got all bent out of shape, and wanted to argue with everyone. He was the only one who didn't get it after several pages of testimony from people who know. JUST LIKE YOU! You should get together with him. I think you two would make a great couple. Maybe you could free handle venomous snakes together, and kill two idiots with one snake. Bye,
T.

Well T, somebody is going to have to use their brain and point out that this is all a moot point.. I have purchased Texas as I'm not really into any snake that has 4 breeder at a time trying to sell them.. I don't want to make money, I just don't want to advertise the same snake over and over again.. You're clearly unable to understand this but even so I'll accepts that it is myself who is the thick headed one..

I'll just assume you're no longer reading as you're clearly more interested in making your point then understanding anothers.. I have texasindigos.com and will use it to further the hobby and help others.. Not sure what you have done to help people in this hobby..

It has also been made painfully clear why it is myself who is wrong.. In this thread alone we have one breeder trying to sell a snake and now two others saying they just give them away.. It is very hard to price match free.. This is clearly the reason why the snakes won't sell for money and the reason for the price going up by the people who are trying to make money with them..

I will call this issue closed as I would have to start naming the people I've talked to working with and trying to sell these snakes to back up any further points.. I will consider your shear amount of time spent talking about this enough justification for my assumption that my points are valid...

Well Marcia,
I don't know why these guys advertise over and over again. It's really not necessary. If you have great animals and a good reputation, the animals will sell themselves. I know you don't understand this, but a few years down the road, you will. If you have the intestinal fortitude to stick with it like Robert has.

You are in for a big surprise, and some serious disappointment. Texas indigos are just as precarious and expensive to produce and sell as easterns. It's basically the same snake. You are going to have all the same problems and heartbreaks as me. They will eat you out of house and home. They will take up a lot of space. They will require a lot of maintenance, and work EVERY DAY. Females will, after months and months of waiting, either die from egg binding, or give you a bunch of slugs, if they lay anything at all. You will have difficulty finding, unrelated animals to maintain genetic diversity in your collection. You will wait 4 years, at least for them to be big enough to breed. You'll throw away tons of dead pinkies, and fish trying to get the babies to start feeding,...if you get any babies at all,...if you can even get the adults to breed at all. You'll spend an enormous amount of money on your feed bill. You'll pull your hair out trying to diversify their diet. You'll have gobs of people pestering you for babies. Your competitors will be charging more money than you,...and getting it. You won't make a profit, and you'll be lucky to break even. The only real difference that you will experience is the Federal and local permits associated with couperi. You won't have all the problems and expense caused by that. But you will run into idiots who think they know it all, even though they don't. And they will argue, and argue, and argue,....

Yes some of us do occasionally give some away. We may as well, because we don't really make any profit anyway. Personally I have not yet given any away, but I have two zoos, and one private individual waiting for a baby from me this year or next, with more to follow. The Atlanta Zoo, Bush Gardens, in Tampa, and B.W. Smith who will get his female this year. I am also working on an artificial insemination project in order to help diversify the captive gene pool. If we did not give them away, many places would not have them. So when I give away some, I have to charge more for the rest of them so I can recover that loss. And I am donating $200 each from the sale of every baby to Indigos Forever so we can pay for things like the genetic survey currently being done by Matt Rand, and we can build a better website, and we can educate folks, donate more animals to more zoos, and we can go into the field and do wild surveys, studies, and help the Nature Conservancy purchase land for habitat. These are the things that I have been working on, not to mention the trips to local schools this year, and answering countless questions from folks. Oh and the artwork I am creating and donating to make T-shirts for sale, the proceeds for which to put back into the organization Indigos Forever, for all of the above. I also belong to The Gopher Tortoise Council, and I donate to the Nature Conservancy. I am constantly looking for ways to help this species, and to help others working with this species.

Your points are totally invalid. You have no clue what you are doing or what you are talking about. You have absolutely no experience with this species. And yet you come here where you are surrounded by folks who do have that experience and knowledge, make an ass of yourself, and refuse to listen to those who DO know what they are talking about. But I have taken the time to try and educate you, even though it seems to go in one ear, and right out the other side, because you already know it all. That's OK. though, because working with Texans you will learn that everything I have told you is true. Wether or not you ever accept it, or admit it to yourself,...is another story. But the market price for Texans and the associated expenses, are in line with, and heading in the same direction as couperi. The longer I work with this species, the more I'm thinking $2000 for a hatchling would actually be a fair price, and the same for Texans. And I am confident that if we all bumped it up to that, we would still be able to sell our babies. And we still wouldn't be getting rich. Hell,...Robert has had his utilities cut off because he couldn't pay the bill! If you disagree that's fine. With time, you will hopefully learn. If you do learn, you'll be forgiven. If you don't, I won't loose any sleep over it because you'll still be an idiot. My shear amount of time spent on this is not because your points are valid,...it's because they are totally invalid, and I don't want others to be as ignorant as you.
T.

As entertaining as this thread is... ...its starting to remind me of a '50s romantic comedy.

Maybe you two need to get together for drinks or something!

LOL - JUST KIDDING!!!

Actually, I'd like to make the following requests:

Marcia - Please post pics of your new Texans - show us what you got!

Tony - Nazza posted a beautiful pic of a HUGE male Eastern on the Indigo/Dry Forum. How about it, got one that size?

Peace!

John D

O.k., I think there is a pic of Mongo on there somewhere, and he is even bigger now. But I'll put one up for ya.

And I'd like to make the following {{{FINAL}}} note; from me at least. LoL

I can remember when I had the same opinion as Marcia,...and expressing it,...and getting flamed for it,...and being called a few names for it too. It's been a couple years. But at one time I did have the same ideas. My opinion has obviously been changed. It was changed by experience and time. I'd be willing to bet that after she has done the dry thing for a couple years, her opinion will change, and she will be flaming somebody else for expressing the same opinion. It may just become a right of passage for the more stubborn of us. And I fully admit being both stubborn and ornery. And I would expect anyone to charge whatever price they see fit for the animals they produce. The people who {{do}} or {{don't}} buy them will decide if they, or we, or me get that price. And like I said before. If mine don't sell, I'll be happy to keep them. No matter how much it costs, because I love them. Period.
T.