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Old 10-08-2004, 03:48 PM   #31
Alias47
I have seen a venom er where they brought the snake (in two halves mind you) with them in the helicopter for identification.

As most of you are well aware (and certainly know better than I do) there are various species of rattler in Southern California...and they cannot be treated the same due to different types of venom.

While I would never advocate killing anything you are not going to use as food (except mosquitos) sometimes it is deemed necessary to aid in the victims (I also use this word loosely...most strikes are provoked in one way or another...some much more deliberate than others) attempted recovery. If none of the people attending the scene can make a positive ID...SOMEONE must in most situations...and since time is critical in an envenomation...the best way to do that is kill the snake and bring it with.

Even the doctor the show is based around made it clear he was disappointed to see this particular snake killed, but sometimes it is a critical part of saving the person that has been envenomated.

They used to cut the heads off of dogs to prove/disprove rabies infections. Now what percentage of THOSE animals do you believe truly had rabies? And how many people did that save?
 
Old 10-08-2004, 05:13 PM   #32
snakegetters
Quote:
Originally posted by Hognose_311
if you see a rattlesnake you know it's a rattlesnake, ofcourse you need almost the exact species identification,for the antivenom,
No, you don't. There are only three choices of antivenom for North American snakes in hospitals today.

1. Wyeth coral snake antivenom. It's not too hard to tell a coral snake from a rattlesnake.

2. CroFab. This is a polyvalent that is supposed to be effective against all of the North American vipers. Clean product with minimal side effects, but bloody expensive and you tend to need a lot more vials.

3. Wyeth polyvalent. Same as above, only cheaper and with more side effects. A bit outdated but there are still current stocks in place.

There is generally going to be a hospital wide policy about which antivenom gets used or stocked, so the patient is not going to have any choice of antivenoms. If it's a viper bite, you're going to get either CroFab or Wyeth. Which one is likely to depend on which drug companies and distributors the hospital is dealing with and/or what historical stocks they still have around.

No, you don't need species identification in North America to treat venomous snake bite, except to differentiate between a coral snake and everything else.

It's nice to know in advance whether the patient was bitten by one of the more neurotoxic vipers (Mojave green, Georgia canebrake) so the docs can have the ventilators ready, but the obvious clue of the early signs of neuromuscular paralysis should make it a pretty clear picture.

Doctors tend to deal with the symptoms of snakebite as they occur; they really aren't helped all that much by knowing what the species was. Certainly not in terms of antivenom administration.
 
Old 10-11-2004, 11:40 AM   #33
Alias47
Thank you for clearing that up...
Your venomous experience is leagues beyond many others.
 
Old 10-11-2004, 12:27 PM   #34
Ken Harbart
LOL. I missed that one Tanith. I've been ignoring this thread for the most part, but should've realized that our young friend would interject.
 
Old 12-22-2004, 10:13 PM   #35
Lonermon
simple solution

you see a snake in your hosue , call me ( grin) ill take care of it .if its too far for me to drive , fly me there , after all nothign is too expensive when it comes to the safety of your family! :scatter:
 
Old 12-23-2004, 12:23 AM   #36
bcfos
Quote:
Originally Posted by snakegetters
No, you don't. There are only three choices of antivenom for North American snakes in hospitals today.

1. Wyeth coral snake antivenom. It's not too hard to tell a coral snake from a rattlesnake.

2. CroFab. This is a polyvalent that is supposed to be effective against all of the North American vipers. Clean product with minimal side effects, but bloody expensive and you tend to need a lot more vials.

3. Wyeth polyvalent. Same as above, only cheaper and with more side effects. A bit outdated but there are still current stocks in place.

There is generally going to be a hospital wide policy about which antivenom gets used or stocked, so the patient is not going to have any choice of antivenoms. If it's a viper bite, you're going to get either CroFab or Wyeth. Which one is likely to depend on which drug companies and distributors the hospital is dealing with and/or what historical stocks they still have around.

No, you don't need species identification in North America to treat venomous snake bite, except to differentiate between a coral snake and everything else.

It's nice to know in advance whether the patient was bitten by one of the more neurotoxic vipers (Mojave green, Georgia canebrake) so the docs can have the ventilators ready, but the obvious clue of the early signs of neuromuscular paralysis should make it a pretty clear picture.

Doctors tend to deal with the symptoms of snakebite as they occur; they really aren't helped all that much by knowing what the species was. Certainly not in terms of antivenom administration.


Very well stated but one other side fact. Many keepers of the more exotic species also keep a stock of anti venom also which is more species specific as most local hospitals don't have such AV's in stock and most zoo's don't have the same species you might keep. I have found out the best data bank and anti venom bank is in south Florida. Most local poision control folks may be clueless about what you may need for a specific species you keep. this is why it is very inportant to have all information in a easy to read folder or notebook that you can take with you in the event of a bite.

As for North American Species the fact that if you can identify the snake it will help greatly in your recovery. But the average homeowner who knows nothing about snakes will just relay the fact they got bitten by a rattlesnake which really doesn't narrow down species specifics of which species bit them. this is why we must educate the public about what lives in their area, plus it is just good public relations to do so anyway.
 
Old 01-01-2005, 07:38 PM   #37
hydrogen cricket
Question what i don't get...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustangrde1
Please Do Not Kill The Snake

I do not believe in using the old Rhyme of red touches yellow kill a fellow. As that if you run across an aberrant specimen it may not hold true. What I do like to tell people is to think of a stop sign Yellow means Caution, Red Means stop so just like a stop sign if red and yellow touch you better not.

Top is The dangerous Coral Snake. Bottom is the Harmless Scarlet King

ok, first i was right about the top being the coral and the bottom being the kingsnake (as i had once wanted one so i know it well), but...i did use the "rhyme" to tell which is which. i understand that the rhyme may not work on all species of the snake (since that seems to be what you're implying), but it did work here.

so...why are you saying not to use it (esp. in regards to these two) when you did use it but not exactly---this is what you said:

<i>if red and yellow touch, then you better not</i>

isn't that the same as "red and yellow kill a fellow, but red and black don't do jack (or won't hurt jack---you decide)" but re-worded differently???
 
Old 01-01-2005, 08:01 PM   #38
hydrogen cricket
also, isn't this the same snake you posted before:


http://www.geo-outdoors.info/images/...ke_western.jpg

anyways, do you have pics of scarlets and corals that do not match the rhyme???
 

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