Patternless Albino or Albino Patternless???

Quick question.

Patternless albinos look like patternless with albino traits (not a spec of melanin). The colour
is 'on steroids' bright. No mistaking them for plain patternless.

However, the same combo of genes could produce 'albino patternless'... which to me suggests an
albino in physical appearance with patternless traits. I've never seen any albino that would
look like it's got patternless traits, just patternless with albino traits. Is there such a
thing as an 'albino with patternless traits' or are they programmed to look like the patternless
with albino traits all the time? Confused?

Now on to part two of this 'quick question' .... If Tremper albinos can darken, would that
automatically imply that Tremper patternless albinos can go dull too?

Patternless albinos are just a combination of the two recessive traits...both traits come through, so what you see comes out as a combination of albino and patternless coloring, plus the animals have the patternless markings. It's not a matter of one morph with traits of the other...it's both morphs combined. The way that a double recessive animal appears depends on the interaction between the two genes...you will only get one general appearance (though other genes will cause variations in appearance...) from a pair of recessive genes. I hope that makes sense...lol As far as your other question...I have no idea...I have no experience with patternless albinos...

They are the same thing, like amel fattails and albino fattails. Same animal, but I guess you could choose to call it either.

As for Tremper Patternless Albinos darkening, I don't think it would happen. I don't have them, but here's my reasoning - The part of the tremper albinos that did darken was the pattern(in normals), so if the animal was patternless (and albino in this case), there would be no pattern to darken.

. . . This is HILDE from Canada. She's a herper from way - way back, if I remember correctly. If not - then I'm really embarrassed!!!

Way to go - good to see you on the Leo forum. I hope you are able to share you some of your experiences with us!!!

Good question, by the way. Welcome to the forum!!

Originally posted by StinaUIUC
plus the animals have the patternless markings.

That's my question - why do they always have the patternless markings (or actually lack of markings)? Couldn't they still be patternless albinos but with albino markings/bands? It would probably be hard to tell they're PA's in that case though. Maybe it is a dumb question, but I keep wondering if some of the albino looking offspring from my PA project couldn't be homo patternless albinos in banded form and I just don't know it. It's assumed they are albinos het for patternless just because they're banded. Is there some unwritten law that says a patternless albino may not have any pattern, it has to be plain? Does that make sense?

(Monte, it's me, you're right.

they always have the patternless markings...this is just because of the way genetics work...there is only one way in which a set of recessive alleles from different genes can interact...basically the only way a patternless albino is going to look is patternless and have albino color...that's the only way that the 2 sets of alleles interact...the variation in individual animals is caused by other genes affecting overall appearance. If all other genes were the same between animals, patternless albinos would all appear exactly the same b/c there is only one way in which the two sets of recessive alleles can interact. Anyway, I hope that makes some sense!! And welcome to the forum!

Hey Hilde,

I think I understand what you're asking, and you're right, they could be Albinos that are het for patternless, or homozygous albino/heterozygous patternless. Patternless Albino/Albino Patternless geckos are Double Homozygous Albino AND Patternless. Breeding a Patternless Albino to a normal gecko produces Double Hets for PA.

For an animal to be albino has nothing to do with it's marking. It only says that that animal is lacking melanin, or black pigment. The pattern you see in normal albinos (banding, striping, etc) is the other pigment in the leos skin leftover when you take the black out.

All of them will have some sort of pattern when they hatch, as do normal patternless geckos, but lose it as they grow.

Just as in albinos, you can have darker PAs and brighter colored PAs.

Albino is a COLOR trait and patternless is a PATTERN trait. You get the pattern of a patternless and the color of an albino. Now if you bred Jungle into it, who knows what would happen.

Originally posted by lilroach56
Now if you bred Jungle into it, who knows what would happen.

If the animal is a Patternless or Patternless Albino, nothing would happen - it would be patternless. Some would say it would be het for jungle, though.

i meant homozygous jungle, not het. I would like to see if the patternless/jungle blended or one was dominant over the other.