New Jersey folks should read this one!

I was reading this article about an abandoned retic in NJ. The article wasn't really worth posting, but then I came to the comments made by Bill Boesenberg, a NJ rehabber, that were very disturbing. His comments are in bold type.
I also did a quick search and came up with his website, complete with email and telephone number. It is located here http://snakes-n-scales.com/.

I thought you guys in NJ might want to be aware of what he is attempting to do to python ownership in your state, if the article indeed quoted him correctly.
Note where he says ALL pythons, not just the big ones. He's including balls, childrens, spotteds, all of them.

Here's the article with his comments in bold:


Python found on roadside

10-foot Fluffy still only a baby


Friday, April 02, 2004


BY BRIAN T. MURRAY
Star-Ledger Staff

It's not unusual for people to walk an animal into the Petco in Old Bridge and seek advice on its care. But what a visitor pulled out of his backpack last week was not your average pet.

"It was a big snake, but I didn't know the breed. Even after I looked it up, I couldn't find a match, so I finally called a friend of mine who works with reptiles at the Bronx Zoo," said Petco employee Laurent Alleyne.

The 10-foot, orange, black and yellowish serpent was a tiger reticulated python. It was a baby in comparison to the adult version of the constrictor species, which not only grow into the world's largest snakes, but have been known to kill people.

Two years ago, a reticulated python that extended more than 49 feet and weighed 985 pounds was captured in the wilds of Sumatra and became the largest snake in captivity.

But in Old Bridge, no one is yet afraid of "Fluffy," the nickname given to the Petco snake by employees at the township animal shelter. The snake hasn't eaten anything bigger than a rat and has remained unusually calm, considering its rough treatment.

"The guy who dropped it off at Petco had found it in a sack on the side of Route 9 and took it to the Petco thinking they could help," said Sonja Svenningsen, the animal control officer in Old Bridge.

"It looks like it was just dumped off the side of the road. Petco contacted my office, and I think we have found a home for it. He seems to be happy and in good shape," she added.

Authorities doubt the snake could have been on the roadside for very long. It is a tropical creature, but was not suffering from exposure to the cold.

"This guy is actually girl. Right now, I'm trying to get her to eat again. She had stopped," said Bill Boesenberg, a state-licensed reptile rehabilitator who gave Fluffy a new home yesterday.

The snake will join a menagerie of creatures in Boesenberg's Wanaque operation, a rescue and education program called Snakes and Scales and Turtle Tales.

He and the Old Bridge officials suspect the python was a discarded pet, something that unnerved Boesenberg not simply because of the shoddy treatment of the snake, but because it was privately owned in the first place.

"Retics get very big, usually in excess of 25 feet and 300 pounds. If they are bought by a person who doesn't know what they are doing, they are going to find it to be a big mistake," he said.

"That happens in many cases. Unfortunately, people panic, and while it's easy to find a place that will take in a snake like this, people just drop them off," said Boesenberg.

Unfortunately, exotic snakes are easy to purchase, legally and illegally, he said. Despite licensing requirements in New Jersey, other states often do not restrict trade in exotic creatures and people often purchase them at animal shows.

"I'm working on something now with the (state) Division of Fish and Wildlife to hopefully stop people from buying all pythons -- to classify them as dangerous animals," said Boesenberg.

Reticulated pythons are a rare find among pet owners, partly because they are capable of killing people.

But Boesenberg contends that the only documented cases of the snakes devouring humans involved children eaten by pets that broke out of cages. The reticulated snakes, even at their largest, prefer to eat pigs and goats.

Yet, even Fluffy would become too much for just anyone to keep as a pet.

"She would get heavy before she'd get very long, but the potential for her to reach 20 feet and 200 pounds is certainly there," said Boesenberg. "And the word we use when describing them is irascible. Friendly is not a word you can ever use with one of these snakes."

The snake's teeth are curved back toward its inner mouth and each of her 140 teeth is about the thickness of a pin. They are not venomous, but they hurt.

"When they bite, you can't pull away. So it's quite painful," said Boesenberg.

Fluffy is not the first unusual creature to be found in Old Bridge.

A few years ago, an albino Burmese python -- one that stretched 22 feet long -- was found slithering around a local park. Next to Fluffy, perhaps the oddest creature authorities there had to rescue was a savannah monitor -- a large African lizard that grows to 4 feet long in captivity and also devours small animals.

"Actually, we got called out to the neighborhood where it was left in a back yard because it was nipping at the local children's feet," Svenningsen said. "It appeared the owner had moved away, and we couldn't find where he went. The monitor was just left in the yard to fend of itself."

At 3 feet long when it was captured, it grew beyond 4 feet by the time a new home was found for the beast, said Svenningsen.

"We certainly get our share of abandoned exotic creatures. I consider it a left-handed compliment," said Barbara Lee, a 23-year veteran at the township shelter.

"People know we take good care of the creatures and work hard to find them homes. Of course, we don't want people dumping them off. It's a problem," she said.

Since the article contained other blatantly false information, I'm hoping it was a misquote. I emailed Mr. Boesenberg and asked him to clarify his position. We'll see if he responds.

New Jersey folks, what do you think?

but my guess is the other blatantly false information included in this article came from him as well. I've offered him a live chat invitation, and if he decides to take us up on it I will contact the WEBSLAVE to see if he'd allow it to take place here at fauna.

It's a sad day when someone opts for an all out "ban" of ownership instead of putting a little more work into the improvement of reptile ownership in general. Educational programs, etc are a far better choice. I'm not real sure if it's in our best interest to let someone who still believes in fluffy working with the DNR to take away the right of keeping Pythons.

I received a reply this morning from Bill Boesenberg. It seems he indeed was misquoted, and is NOT trying to ban pythons in his state.

I sent him the link to this thread in case he has interest in responding himself.

Well, he replied to me as well, and I would like to apologize to him for jumping the gun on my first reply to this thread. I was under the impression it was just another "hater" trying to get an all out ban going on, plus the whole "fluffy" thing had me a little jacked up as well. So he has my public apologies.

It seems he's very caring about the animals, and has witnessed enough mistreatment that he's fed up.

Below is part of his reply to me.

Who are you?? Do you have permits for your herps?? How many unwanted pythons a year do you take in and care for?? I have been dealing with and teaching about these animals for 20 years and I've see little real talent in handling them. I have seen abuse, neglect and a macho attitude that has no grasp on reality. We are only talking about three species, Burms, Retics, and African Rocks: also all Anacondas, no other "ban" is contemplated

I'm sure we've all witnessed abuse at sometime or other, and I'm sure most of us agree that it should not go unpunished. However, I am strongly opposed to "bans" because once in the tunnel, things get out of control, next thing you know, some DNR guy is raiding my home, and running off with $40,000 in Albino Dwarf Retics, just because they're Retics, then grabbing up my Ghost Corns because the pencil sketch in the "Peterson's Field Guide" resembles the Eastern Milk. Then my Ball Pythons, because even though the ban may not have been intended for smaller constrictors it was easier to ban them all just for the simple fact they can't identify the majority.

Well, I can't say that I'd disagree with eliminating the ability of anyone who has $50 to buy a burm at the corner pet store, however a total ban is never an answer.
Regulation is acceptable in some circumstances, as would be permiting to ensure the knowledge and ability of the potential keeper.
Total bans do nothing but open the door, a door that's best left closed.

The fact is some people are fully capable of caring for giant snakes. Granted, in my opinion they are in the minority when compared to the total number of owners of those species, but just because they are fewer in number is not a valid reason why they should be lumped in with the inept.
I do believe that there are FAR more burmese and retics produced each year than there are competent keepers. The reality of it is the average reptile keeper should not own a burm. They require a different level of care, and ability than smaller species.
Regardless, those who are capable should not be denied the ability to own one just because a rehabber and the DNR doesn't want anyone to have them.

Complete bans are the easy way out. It's much easier to just punish everybody than to put forth the effort to determine who is and who is not capable.
I do not own a burm, and probably never will, nor any of the other species mentioned. If I did wind up owning one I would never consider breeding it, there are too many as it is to supply the demand of keepers with the ability to care for one for the duration of it's life.
Despite the fact that such regulation would not affect me for these reasons, I would never support the denial of someone else who is capable of their enjoyment of working with these species.

As I have said many times, if the python keepers remain silent while venomous herps are banned, then the colubrid keepers say nothing when gisnt snakes are banned, eventually they'll eliminate all of us.

Now, as if my post wasn't long enough, I'll take a look at his email

Who are you?? Do you have permits for your herps??

I fail to understand the relevance of the question. Is this an assumption that a) everyone, everywhere, is required to have permits or b) they you (or we) are keeping herps illegally?
The fact is the areas in this country that require permits are the minority by far.

How many unwanted pythons a year do you take in and care for??

Again, I fail to see the relevance. Just because someone chooses not to play the martyr and take in every unwanted animal that comes along does not make their opinion on such issues invalid.
I for one value my collection far too highly to take in animals at random. But then again my collection is not comprised of "rescues" I actually had to purchase them. Last time I checked there weren't very many womas available for adoption.

I have been dealing with and teaching about these animals for 20 years and I've see little real talent in handling them.

Be it 2 years, 20 years, or 60 years, it does not give another the right to dictate what I choose to do. I freely admit that many keepers of these species should not have them, and will likely not have them for the entire life of the snake. That does not mean that no such people exist, or that those who are competent are any less important.

We are only talking about three species, Burms, Retics, and African Rocks: also all Anacondas, no other "ban" is contemplated

Of course not..... for now. Hear the creaking of the door?

I must have caught him in a better mood. Here is our exchange:

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Boesenberg
To: Terese Mansell
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 4:33 AM
Subject: Re: Article in Star-Ledger


Terese

We agree, the article misquoted me. I was speaking only of the largest species and then only from the most amateur keepers of reptiles. Where are you located, I would be interested in seeing you.

BILL
----- Original Message -----
From: Terese Mansell
To: reptiled@concentric.net
Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 10:55 AM
Subject: Article in Star-Ledger


Good morning, Mr. Boesenberg,

I just recently read an article from the Star-Ledger that quoted you as saying you were working with legislators to ban all pythons in your state. Is that accurate information?

As a reptile educator/breeder/hobbyist, I would hate to see the reptile hobby suffer in that way. Although I agree that all pet ownership requires the proper skills and maturity, especially for larger pythons, I believe that many of the smaller breeds of python (Royal, Spotted, Children's, Cape York Spotted) make outstanding pets for even young people. Certainly the mid-sized animals, such as Bloods, Carpets, etc. are not too difficult for an adult hobbyist.

Since there was other blatantly false information (including the reference to a non-existent 49 ft. python) in the article, I sincerely hope your comments were misconstrued.

Best regards,

Terese Mansell

I've exchanged a few emails from Bill the past day or so, and he wanted me to post them here, so everyone could read. So at his request, here there are.

-START OF EMAILS-

Troy wrote:
Would you please take a moment to explain to me why you would want to ban the ownership of Pythons in the state of NJ. I find it somewhat amusing. Would you care to take part in an online discussion or live chat to argue your opinion on this?? I would be more than happy to set it up at a date that fits your schedule on a site that ranks high in the herp community, and should easily get 100+ chat room users during your session. It's sad to see someone like yourself choose a "ban" instead of an educational program, or many other positive alternatives. You'll be in for one heckuva fight. I think most of the herp community that work closely with these animals are fed up with people attempting to take away their freedoms, and many of these people are fully capable of lobbying against any extreme prejudice, so if you're up to it, get back with me for a time and url for a live discussion on your future plans.




Bill wrote:
Who are you?? Do you have permits for your herps?? How many unwanted pythons a year do you take in and care for?? I have been dealing with and teaching about these animals for 20 years and I've see little real talent in handling them. I have seen abuse, neglect and a macho attitude that has no grasp on reality.
We are only talking about three species, Burms, Retics, and African Rocks: also all Anacondas, no other "ban" is contemplated. As far as fighting, no one did a very good job of fighting in NY two years ago!! I am one of only a very few people in NJ that will take these animals. Any reputable keeper of these animals who does take in orphans is thrilled by this idea of slowing the flow. And do you really think that determined people will not just go to PA. and buy them anyway: regardless of any laws, as they do now with alligators?
Getting 100 people on chat room does not impress me. People will TALK. Tell me you have 100 qualified people to take in orphaned Burms who understand the requirements and difficulties involved in keeping them: that they won't breed them, torture them, or loose them on the neighborhood. Tell me how much money YOU and they would like to personaly donate to keep the giant pythons I rescue alive and then we can deal!! My problem isn't one of people's freedom, my problem is that I really care, (and have been caring with my own money and resources) for these magnificent creatures that are treated like crap by the public and the society at large!!




Troy wrote:
Obviously, when words are written, and you don't have the benefit of facial expressions and tone of voice, it is easy to take what was said as an attack or simply misinterpret one's point. I also have 20+ years in keeping various reptiles, and know first hand what some of the larger constrictors have been subjected to for uneducated keepers. I to, have taken in many unwanted herps during my years as a hobbiest, and I share your passion 100% for these animals. So now that we've gotten that out of the way, let's start this over...

Of course you have made some very valid points regarding the larger constrictors, but after witnessing first hand what the Gov't is capable of, I strongly feel the herp community work together for reptile improvement, not banning the animals all together. The way I see it is this, Indiana for example, wanted place a ban on large constrictors - well guess what, once it got through the tunnel, every single non-venomous python, boa, and colubrid that had the "capability" of reaching 7' was banned for sale, trade, and transport. Also, when they wanted to protect species native to Indiana, they grouped ALL Lampropeltis, Elaphe, etc into one category making those also "illegal". I also witnessed a DNR agents butcher "species identification" confiusing Ghost Corns with Eastern Milks, etc...and it's just my opinion that we need reptile improvement, not bans. I for one, would completely agree to permit requirements, inspections, etc regarding some of the larger constrictors but the thing that bothers me the most...you are quoted saying "do you really think that determined people will not just go to PA. and buy them anyway: regardless of any laws, as they do now with alligators??" ...and that's just it - the people who subject these animals to these conditions go unpunished, while the dedicated, serious, law abiding citizen has something taken away from him or her that is very special.

You sounded very ticked off in your reply, and hopefully we can re-introduce ourselves. Obviously, we both care deeply for the animals, and I fully understand where you are coming from, but I guess I'm just a little leary since we as propagators/hobbiest/collectors can't govern ourselves, and have to bring in someone who may not be familiar with reptiles in general.

The 100+ people in a chat wasn't supposed to impress you. It was just a thought. I'm sure you'd make some very valid arguements as to why you feel a ban is necessary, but please keep in mind, ALOT of us DESERVE to keep the animals in captivity. The bottom line here is a very large group of world reknown keepers/breeders are currently working on "guidlines" for reptile improvement, and should be recognized nationwide, hence lifting the majority of all "bans" and restructuring current laws, permit requirements, etc.

If you feel my email was worthy of showing your visitors "someone that doesn't care" about proper large constrictor care and maintenance, or the animal at all, then by all means, use it on your site...but I do care, and I am with you on the "stupid people" thing, it has taken a toll on the animals, and the people who care about them, but sadly, that's the way it is with everything in the world today - that why again, I feel reptile improvement guidlines or permits/inspections are a far better option for those deserving. The bad guys will be bad guys no matter what, a "ban" will ONLY affect the good guys in my opinion. Let's continue our conversation, I'm all ears, and would like for us to "work together" instead of against each other. I know we both want a happy ending for the animals, when it's all said and done.




Bill wrote:
When I first read your email I was unaware how mangled my words got in the Ledger article. I have since been informed and hit with other people outraged at my willingness to "ban all pythons," which is not what I said!! I was also turned off by the tone of your email. So, by all means, lets start again!
My idea is to restrict from the most amatuer hobbiests the largest of the boidae group. PERIOD. Burms, Retics, Afr. Rocks and the Anaconds, no other large non-venomous snakes. Not even Boa Constrictors and certainly not Rats, or Kings!! Anyone who can show expertise and reasonable cause certainly should be able to keep these snakes if they adhere to the reasonable restrictions imposed for safety of the animal and people.
As for state controls. By no means should legislstors, who can't understand human behavior be allowed to pass laws on animals. NJ is very advanced. They ask experts in the field to consult on what should and should not be out there walking around for anyone to keep. This is certainly no guarentee of wisdom, but it is a begining! As it stands now I see an large number of these snakes with few alternatives if I don't take them. I also see veterinarians who couldn't tell the difference between a Burm and a Honda! Maybe, maybe, if they weren't available to everyone at every pet store the misinformation handed out with these animals by the pet trade would slow down a bit. Is it a panacea?? NO of course not. I spend all my waking hours educating people on reptile care and habits and there is no way to get to everybody who needs to hear it. But if they walk into a pet store and there only Balls, Kings, Boas, Corns and Rats that is what they will buy. Most people won't be bothered going elsewhere. Those that do contervene the law are not the people you make laws for.
I believe we need an alliance between the Herpetologists and the Legislators not a war. NJ is willing to listen and I'm willing to help. (I'm willing to help them or anybody else who needs assitance in understanding herps and not destroying or defaming them.) The problem with guidlines is enforcement. If difficult creatures are available people will buy them and ignore most information on them. Certainly there is more than enough info on these animals out there already but the average person will not read it! It isn't any different than what I see with other species but there is a difference when a Kingsnake gets loose and when a 17ft Retic does!! The plight of the 10 million orphaned dogs and cats proves that many people will abuse animals regardless, we can't stop it, but we can select which animals it will happen to.
I would like to "TALK" to you about this further. I will bring my passion but leave my attitude.




Troy wrote:
Thank you so much for your reply!! I was anxiously awaiting it - because I did feel bad about upsetting you. You came across very passionate, and to me, that's a good person in my book. You do have an excellent view, and I feel confident in your mission after chatting with you via email, so consider myself a supporter of you and your cause. I just get a little "unsettled" when I hear things from another party, or from the media when it comes to the future of reptiles, and in all fairness, I have found a love for something "good", and have replaced all of my "bad" with it. In short, my life has changed for the better after discovering keeping and breeding reptiles. It's a hobby that my family can enjoy as well. As you know, it can be very positive. I completely see where you're coming from, and again, by all means, consider me a friend in the hobby. After reading more about what you do and have done on your website, I obviously made the wrong call, and hope you understand how someone may be quick to get defensive on this subject, especially in a modern day where some of our rights have been violated. What you do is appreciated by many of us, and keep up the good work. I will call you sometime soon, to talk with you more. Thank you again.


Bill wrote:

Troy,

I wonder if you would do me a huge favor?? I have attached all our emails in sequence, minus my phone number. Would you be willing to paste these up where you saw the article online? I am being bombarded!!! Perhaps it would help to straighten this mess out.

-END OF EMAILS-


So there it is, and I have to say after talking with him, he seems to be a very honest person, with only good intentions, and has the animals best interest solely in mind. I think he's one that will work with us, and not against us, we just have to come together, share our points of view, and work on a solution, or a "happy medium". Thanks for reading.

speaking in defense for bill, i must say that he truly does have the animals' interests at heart and then places people second. i worked with him many years ago and he taught me alot of what i know today about the guys i have and love today. he is a hard person to get along with work-wise. yes he comes off a bit arrogant and strong-willed but give him time and he does show a good heart there.