Spectacular Radio Show on Keeper's Rights & Fights

I keep on hearing this word "compromise" bantered about, and in the context I am hearing it, I wonder if everyone really knows the meaning of the word.

1. a settlement of differences by mutual concessions; an agreement reached by adjustment of conflicting or opposing claims, principles, etc., by reciprocal modification of demands.
2. the result of such a settlement.
3. something intermediate between different things: The split-level is a compromise between a ranch house and a multistoried house.
4. an endangering, especially of reputation; exposure to danger, suspicion, etc.: a compromise of one's integrity.

*emphasis added

Well, this sounds reasonable to me, IF it is legitimate compromise we are talking about... In other words, the two parties at conflict each GIVE a little in order to GET a little. From what I have seen, the government at any level does not understand the concept of compromise at all. Their concept is more along the lines of, "We want to take it all, but we will settle for taking half. For now." Sorry, but that is NOT compromise, that is CONCESSION. In other words, to accept defeat, even if it is for less than you were threatened with initially.

If the government is willing to truly compromise, then fine. But if the government merely will accept your concession, then not so fine. With a concession, you STILL lost something without gaining anything in return. And in that manner will our rights be taken away from us completely over time.

What are the regulations for?

The governement should not regulate for the sake of regulation. There simply is no reason in Ohio to regulate exotics. We don't have injuries or deaths that we need to protect the public from. Where are the statisics? The fact that HSUS want regulations is no reason to have regulations.

Compromise with HSUS? They don't care about cage size that don't want anyone to keep any animals.

The latest propasal for Ohio would make All Boas,Pythons and venomous illegal, persons would have until January 1, 2014 to get rid of their aniamls either by euthanizing or selling them to a person in a state that allows them.

This includes all Ball Pythons, Rosy Boas, Sand Boas, and of course the deadly Childrens Pythons.

[quote=sally-dog;1385485]Are you talking to me, or the other guy? Because I'm totally for logical compromises.

I stated before; I DO agree with his message. However, was he the right person to parade around on a popular radio show? No... and that was the original problem myself and others have had.

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If your 24 too, I'm sorry for the confusion.
But I agree with your statement. If the community (who is all against AR groups and bans) can be this critical of him, how do you think it's going to go down when AR groups go on the attack against Wilkins? Yes, reputation and background has everything to do with who represents us. Just look at the burning coals Republican candidates for presidency go through from their own party. They do that because they know the other guys will be ten times as ruthless when trying to discredit and defeat their guy. The Wilkins scenario is no different. AR has a lot of money and friends to tear at him. Hell, as soon as he mentioned associating with the Kicks I became suspicious of his character and reputation. If he will come to the defense of scammers like them over animal welfare conditions at their store then I can see the claims against his conditions holding weight. Jumpin jiminy christmas, nearly everyone knows not to deal with the Kicks. Wonder if he will defend High End Herps when Dave gets locked up....again.

Let's put it this way; I liked hearing what he said. I liked his approach. Very ballsy and straight to the point. I wanted to hear someone say things like that. Key word; I wanted to hear that. First flag though is when someone tells you everything you want to hear, not the ugly truth. I would rather someone piss me off with the truth than appease me with lies or exaggerations. But that's just me; litening for what I need to hear, not what I want to.
Fire Skip Snow? Fire Rodda and Reed from USGS? If it was so easily done then why hasn't it been attempted? Why has his organization been around since 2003 and this is the first we heard of it? Where has he been for at least the past 4 years? His answers to proposed legislation bring up more questions like these.
I will give him benefit of the doubt and take his word that he has beat back anti-exotic legislation in Ohio all by his lonesome self. But that's his state. What is he doing to help VA, SC, GA WI and all other states that are currently targeted? Where was he and his buddy Keszey when Florida took ahit. To quote Wilkins, "I'm not worried in [regards to exotic bans]. The other 49 states should be shaking in their boots."
Sounds like Terry is going to take care of Terry. If you want him to look out for you, consider moving to Ohio or even to his neighborhood and let me know how that works out for ya.

Also, if we wnat o do the NRA comparison; they had their fights too. But is anyone familiar with 7 day waiting periods. Bill of Rights says we have the RIGHT to own firearms. Government still says you cannot have a cannon, artillery or RPGs. If you do have a firearm you must register it in your name.
We do not have a right to keep animals. It is a privilege like driving. As automobile use grew, new laws like car insurance came about. Our industry/hobby/comunity has grown fast in the past 10-15 years and with fast, expansive growth comes growing pains.
And no one is compromising with HSUS other than agriculture groups threatened with ballot initiatives and other tactics (clean and under handed) by AR groups. They "want to eliminate exotic animal ownership. The state wants to control it". That's what Pacelle said word for word. Regulating and setting standards for best managemnet practices is not their idea of compromise. They want an end. They want us to have no input on any regulations drafted. They don't wnat a seat at the discussion table, they want to smash it.
So if your thinking that USARK is sitting down with HSUS to hammer out a compromise between the two....I have some beach front proerty in Nevada I'll sell ya. I'll even throw in a ball python het for legs.

[QUOTE

QUOTE]

If your 24 too, I'm sorry for the confusion.
But I agree with your statement. If the community (who is all against AR groups and bans) can be this critical of him, how do you think it's going to go down when AR groups go on the attack against Wilkins? Yes, reputation and background has everything to do with who represents us. Just look at the burning coals Republican candidates for presidency go through from their own party. They do that because they know the other guys will be ten times as ruthless when trying to discredit and defeat their guy. The Wilkins scenario is no different. AR has a lot of money and friends to tear at him. Hell, as soon as he mentioned associating with the Kicks I became suspicious of his character and reputation. If he will come to the defense of scammers like them over animal welfare conditions at their store then I can see the claims against his conditions holding weight. Jumpin jiminy christmas, nearly everyone knows not to deal with the Kicks. Wonder if he will defend High End Herps when Dave gets locked up....again.
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Do you really think this is about cage sizes and the condition animals are kept? These groups don't want anyone owning any animals.

We are not trying to work with HSUS.
*SLAMS HEAD ON DESK*
We are trying to work with politicians/bureaucrats. They can be as wary of HSUS as us.
Have you ever debated or engaged an HSUS supporter or employee? They are a fickle bunch. They grasp at straws to come up with reasons to ban reptiles.
1ST- Public safety. We throw out that dogs and horses kill more every year. They will say that's because more people have dogs than reptiles. You put the basic anatomical make up of a dog versus a snake and ask them which is more dangerous. An animal with no legs that you can walk away from and teeth no longer than a 1/2 inch on the biggest of constrictors versus one with bigger teeth, four legs and can out run you. That tends to shut them up. But of course they move on too.....
2- Invasive issues. While only 3 counties in the southern tip of one state have apython problem they still spout tripe using the USGS report. They know as well as we do that that feral cats pose a higher threat to native fauna. They will tell you HSUS supports Trap, Neuter and Release Programs to address the problem of feral cats and pint out there is no TNP for feral pythons. To which I usually reply "the cats and pythons aren't MATING with native wildflife, they are eating them". I also bring up the permitted python hunts. End of that so we get to....
3- They bring up zoonotic diseases reptile scarry. Yes..the one; salmonella. I supply them with a source called the Center for Disease Control (CDC) and it states that salmonella is the only illness you can get from reptiles. Meanwhile; dogs can carry 16 seperate illnesses including salmonella.
4- "What belongs in the wild should stay in the wild". That's what they say. And I tell them I agree. That's why we have advocated captive bred over imports for God knows how long. I remember it back in the late 90s when I first strated attending local herp shows. I also remind them how critical and cynical they get when someone opposing them says "God put animals here and gave us domain over them to use" and how it reminds me so much of their "wild should stay wild" statements. No point in bringing up habitat loss and endangerement. They already see it as better extinct than in captivity.
5- The welfare of the animal. Funny how it can go extinct one minute and the next they are so concerned with how it's treated, but this is the Hypocrite Society of the US. This is where it gets wierd because you can see the levels of extremism within the ranks. I have some that told me the NC law (as is) was something they could settle for. Obviously the least extreme that were suckered in thought that way. They just want to see something in place that addresses the issue. No regulation is what drew them to Ohio in the first place. Then you have the extremists who never question Pacelle, even over saying Vick would be a good dog owner. Only an outright ban will appease them. So a law written by keeper for keeper will really piss in their cornflakes.


Again, we are not negotiating with AR groups. They don't negotiate they threatened. Which is one reason their hundreds of millions they attain every year gets little done for the amounts they pour into it.
We have to convince and negotiate with the politicians. They are not sitting around just thinking of freedoms they can strip from their constituents. They certainly are not all AR friendly either. HSUS may write up a draft for a law they want enacted; but the legislators are the ones who decide to go with or against it. They are the ones that need to be educated and have their concerns addressed. If making it a law to have a lock on a hot snake gets them to relax, back off and blocks attempts by AR to eliminate ownership then I suggest to venomous keepers to get another key ring. It already makes sense to have something like that secure anyway.
It's not all about regulating orselves. It's about beating AR groups to the punch while softening the blow to ourselves. Sort of like a blocking move in chess. What's the harm in saying we will use secure enclosure and safety protocols for certain reptiles and reassuring legislators being hounded by AR to ban said animals?
If one likes using bricks and books to secure their cages, I can see why fighting against caging standards is their soapbox.

For the record: sally-dog is the one who is 24 years old. I passed that milestone decades ago.

"The intentional or negligent exposure of other human beings or the environment to unsafe contact with reptiles that are venomous, with large constricting snakes, or with crocodilians being potentially injurious and detrimental to public health, safety and welfare, and the environment, the indulgence in and inducement to such exposure is hereby declared to be a public nuisance and a criminal offense, to be abated and punished as provided in this Article."

Any guesses as to who you think wrote this proposed regulation?????

Ding, ding, ding. The answer is USARK!!!!! They also have a regulation prohibiting the handling of reptiles or suggesting or inducing others to handle.

That's right, your friends protecting our right to ... wait. I guess for sally-dog doing her many reptile shows would now put her into the criminal category by intentionally having folks handle a Burmese python, or even a rosy boa (by Ohio's proposed definition). I can already hear her saying, "But I only have leopard geckos and corn snakes." And how long do you think it would really take to add animals to this list? (Hopefully you don't believe the list ends here.) Quicker than it takes to type this up. We've already seen this here in Ohio with our natives. Oh yeah, lest I forget to mention, without ANY legislative oversight.

Better yet, substitute just about anything "potentially dangerous" where a reptile is mentioned. You got it. This would make it a criminal offense for a car dealership to allow you test drive a car before you buy it. Don't let your friend use your new golf club. 4-H horse riding summer camp is out. Fathers, don't give your kid the bat to play Little League. This list could get very long very quickly. And really, doesn't it sound ridiculous now?

And to Taking up Serpents; here in Ohio we do not have a 7-day waiting period to buy a firearm. We also do not have gun registration. Also, in the good 'ole USA we are able to legally buy and own ordinance (cannons as you call them). Machine guns and suppressors are legal too!! Oh my!!! That is Federal law (National Firearms Act of 1934). Unless, of course, if locally you have allowed your Constitutionally guaranteed rights to be taken away. Or if you are a felon...hmmm. Get your facts straight (read this as do your homework) before you spread more misinformation.

It's HSUS that states Ohio has the least restrictive exotic laws on the books. I prefer to view Ohio as the state with the best freedoms in the country (obviously on more issues than just exotics). As mentioned before I will continue to keep on fighting for my freedoms (and rights---another homework lesson to the uneducated).

At this point, I'm just laughing.
Oh, and if you looked so far as to know my age, you'd see that my name is Rachel. And you'd use it.
I said NOTHING about donating to USARK in posts. Go read it.
Keep grasping for straws, sir, because, seriously, I have work to do. We all do.
Be safe.

Oh and I own a 12ft retic and several large boa constrictors. Nice try!

Again, have a nice day! :P