UPS, FedEx, Airborne Express, USPS - bad guys.

Is it time to take off the gloves about this shipping issue?

Here is a quoted page about an issue that may be what we need to pursue at this point:

CLASS & MASS LITIGATION


INTRODUCTION
Class and mass action litigation are procedural tools and techniques used to resolve a large number of similar claims. There is no limit to the size of the claims that may be addressed by either type of litigation, but class actions in particular have been recognized as a valuable method of addressing claims that because of their relatively small value would otherwise be almost impossible to litigate economically on an individual basis.

CLASS ACTION LITIGATION
"The class action is one of the few legal remedies the small claimant has against those who command the status quo." - Justice William O. Douglas

Class action litigation allows one or more class representatives to represent the class, a defined group of people with similar claims. The greatest advantage of class action litigation is its ability to resolve the claims of the entire class by examining only the claims of the class representatives. This protects the non-class representative class members from discovery, significantly limits their involvement necessary to recover on their claims, and protects class members who are not aware of their claims. Another significant advantage of class litigation is that in many jurisdictions, the filing of a class action may protect the statute of limitations (the time period in which a claim must be filed or is lost) for the entire class. Not all claims are appropriate for class certification, however.

While there are several types of class actions, one of the most typical alleges that the issues common to all the class members "predominate" over any issues that may differ among them. The dispute by the defendant over whether or not the common issues truly do predominate over individual issues frequently becomes the focus of the fight to certify the class. Defendants often may not even dispute their liability to the class members, yet they try to insist that the claims be brought individually, knowing that to do so would be economically unfeasible for most claimants. In this typical scenario, the defendants believe, to their shameful discredit, that by defeating the certification of the class they will avoid facing their liability to the class members altogether.

Class action litigation is initiated by the filing of a class action complaint or petition naming one or more persons seeking to be appointed as class representatives to pursue the claims of the proposed class. The first stage of the case is discovery by both sides aimed at determining whether the case is appropriate for class action litigation. Usually, the class representatives will have to answer interrogatories, produce documents and be deposed during this time. Following this discovery period, the court holds a hearing, which often takes the form of a short trial to the judge, to determine whether the proposed class should be certified.

If the court does certify the proposed class, the defendant, in most jurisdictions, will try to appeal the class certification decision. This appeal is one of the serious drawbacks to class action litigation, as it will often take nine months to two years to resolve, during which the case typically cannot be prosecuted. After the successful class certification decision is final, the class is notified of the litigation and the parties prepare for trial. At trial, the class representatives present their claims and all the common issues are determined on behalf of the entire class. Where possible, any individual issues, such as an individual determination of damages, are also determined through the use of expert testimony.

Every case presents unique class certification issues. Where class action litigation is available it is a powerful tool for addressing a large number of similar claims. It does have drawbacks, however, including the potential for very high expenses and extended delay because of appellate review. Nonetheless, its advantages often make it the only economically viable avenue to pursue some claims.

MASS ACTION LITIGATION
Unlike class action litigation, in which the claims of a large number of persons are resolved with only the class representatives as named plaintiffs in a lawsuit, mass action litigation involves one or more lawsuits by a group of persons, all of whom are named as plaintiffs. Mass action litigation provides benefits of shared and reduced costs for commonly applicable discovery and experts and an exceptional knowledge of the claims by the lawyers and the courts. A significant disadvantage is that every plaintiff is subject to discovery. Another disadvantage is that the filing of mass action litigation does not protect the statute of limitations for persons who are not named as plaintiffs. But, in contrast to class action litigation, which may be very protracted, mass action litigation can often be resolved in a much shorter time period.

Both class and mass action litigation may be used in some cases. A weighing of the advantages and disadvantages of each is a significant decision at the outset of the case. Together, these two procedural methods provide a means to present claims that would often go without recourse if considered on an individual basis.

As such, I have sent the following email to a group of lawyers (Kemp & Kesler)who specialize in this sort of litigation to see if we, as a group, have standing to pursue this matter through legal channels.

My primary business is the breeding and selling of nonvenomous snakes. There are thousands of other people in this same business, and we are basically placed in a very difficult and precarious position by all of the common carrier shipping companies (UPS, FedEx, Airborne Express, USPS) by the fact that NONE of those companies will knowingly accept live harmless snakes as cargo for door to door delivery. However, there are numerous cases of people apparently being granted either a "blind eye" policy towards them using their services, or some businesses are allowed to utilize those services as local management exception-based decisions. In the latter case, this is highly discriminatory towards any competitors of those businesses who are not allowed the competitive advantage of allowing them to take advantage of this service. But as some circumstances have shown, even those people are merely living on burrowed time, as a change in local management could end their preferred status at any time.

In the former situation, those people not plainly marking their boxes with the accurate contents, which in most cases they need to do in order to simply survive in this business, are in violation of the federal Lacey Act, and subject to severe penalties if discovered. But based on the above mentioned circumstances, they have no other choices available.

This affects thousands of people dealing in millions of dollars worth of animals every year. I believe we are blatantly being discriminated against and our businesses are suffering accordingly. As such, I believe it is time to do something about this situation or just stand by and watch our entire industry just wither away piece by piece.

Is this issue worthy of consideration for either a class action or mass action lawsuit against ALL of the common carriers mentioned above?

Thank you for your time and anticipated response.

Maybe it is just time to go for the gold ring, or just fold up the tents and get into another line of work.

But bear in mind, there may need to be some eggs broken in order to make this omelet.

I just (as in yesterday) got my letter of exception to ship Reptiles and Amphibians via Fedex. Now when I received my letter from UPS when I first started. it stated specifically only live harmless lizards. Fedex's letter just states live harmless reptiles and amphibians.

It took me 6 months of calling, writing, pouting, and laying down in the middle of Fedex and pounding my fist and feet on the floor to get them to move on this but it did happen (well ok, so just a lot writing and calling). I know of another larger reptile store that is shipping snakes via FedEx with their permission.

usps sucks!!!!!!!!!!! i sent an incubator out PRIORITY witch is 3 days , well its been over a week and it still hasnt made it to its destination. forget shipping live reptiles. they cant get regular mail out right.

I SENT 4 LIGHT BULBS WITH THE POST OFFICE WELL PACKAGED -- IN A BOS WITH ALL KINDS OF PACKING PEANUTS AND THEY BROKE 2 OF THEM IN SHIPPING ---

lol why the hell did you ship light bulbs

Rich,

Excellent idea! If you need help count with me. When the timing is right, it might be important to expand the campaign to other herp-related web sites, ask companies which directly or indirectly benefit from the herp trade to put a link on their sites, or maybe even put ad in Reptiles Magazine. It's time to do something about it.

Thanks.

Rich,
I think you bring up some great points in that letter. I have been the resipient of packages from UPS where the box clearly stated 'live harmless snakes'. Without ever asking the 'shipper' how they were able to do such, I did ask around a bit and it seems that the favored answered I received was they were 'grandfathered in'. I guess at one time these shippers (UPS in this case) did permit the shipping of snakes and later changed it. I understand laws change, but like you stated so very well in your letter, it is not fair to those of us that were not able/around when they did ship snakes.
When I sell something, yesterday being a prime example, I do everything I can to get the buyer to use Delta. Yes, it does cost more, but for me, it is the only service that is available without breaking company policies or federal laws. Although I prefer Delta myself as the buyer OR seller (faster arrival, safer due to timein the box and because of few hands on it and not being tossed around that I know of), it is not something I would want to use or ask others to use when buying a lower priced snake. I know, like yourself, many people sell cornsnakes and other colubrids. It makes no sense whatsoever to spend $68 on Delta Dash ($40-60 for priority I think they call it) when you may only be buying a $40 or less snake. I personally am only dealing boa morphs so I can justify spending the extra $68 when I am spending multi hundreds on the snake/s. On the other hand, not everyone (including myself at times) can afford the extra $68 for Delta's services. THe other issue that makes Delta more adventageous is the insurance they provide upon request for their shipments.

ANother issue that always pissed me off with Airborne is how they quote you a price of "$X" to go from this zip code to that zip code. What people fail to realize is they charge you extra for a box that does not have their logo on it. They charge you a rediculous amount for a box that might be a bit larger. Now I do understand that space is valuable to them on the trucks and planes. But an extra $10-$20 for a box that is 3" larger in width and length is rediculous. I received a bill from them a few years ago that was $72 for next day service (door to door of course). I don't often do this, but I did a deal with a buyer where I included the shipping and of no fault to the buyer I got SCREWED! I called ahead of time and asked howmuch it would be to ship a 14"x12"x12" box, gave zips, EXACT weight and everything. I was quoted $38 and said fine. Upon reciept of the bill, I about had a heart attack. The bill was $72! I called and asked why and they asked if I used a "Airborne" box (I said no), they asked dementions, weight etc (mind you, I told them all this info about the weightand size before scheduling). The best answer they could come up with was the fact that I used 'my own box'. After reading the back of the shipping label, reading their website, I NEVER found anything that stated such additional charges would be applied. Long story short (hell it is long already...LOL), they would not reduce the charges no matter who I talked to and I have YET to pay it. I have NEVER not paid a bill, but this was flat wrong in my opinion.
Although this really has nothing to do with the point of this thread, I think it is just another way these companies screw us (and other industries as well).

I would really like to get more info on how I could be a part of this and make it easier for all of us to ship. Heck they would make a TON of money off all of us breeders and they don't believe so as I have had this talk with 'Managers' in the past from Airborne and UPS.

OK, I am threw rambling.

Nearly all of us are engaging in legal activities, with any and all permits required in place for us to do this activity. We have every right to be afforded the opportunity to ship our non-dangerous goods to our customers in the same manner that any other business can do so.

The shipping companies have no real defense against a claim of injury caused by this sort of damaging policy. Some will say they are private businesses and can do what they want to as their policies, but I disagree. If those policies are shown to be damaging to a party through no actual inherent danger from the merchandise itself, and instead stemming from a prejudicial attitude by upper management of the companies, then they can be in legal jeopard over their unreasonable actions.

tort law: an overview
Torts are civil wrongs recognized by law as grounds for a lawsuit. These wrongs result in an injury or harm constituting the basis for a claim by the injured party. While some torts are also crimes punishable with imprisonment, the primary aim of tort law is to provide relief for the damages incurred and deter others from committing the same harms. The injured person may sue for an injunction to prevent the continuation of the tortious conduct or for monetary damages. (See Damages) Among the types of damages the injured party may recover are: loss of earnings capacity, pain and suffering, and reasonable medical expenses. They include both present and future expected losses.

There are numerous specific torts including trespass, assault, battery, negligence, products liability, and intentional infliction of emotional distress. Torts fall into three general categories: intentional torts (e.g., intentionally hitting a person); negligent torts (causing an accident by failing to obey traffic rules); and strict liability torts (e.g., liability for making and selling defective products - See Products Liability). Intentional torts are those wrongs which the defendant knew or should have known would occur through their actions or inactions. Negligent torts occur when the defendant's actions were unreasonably unsafe. Strict liability wrongs do not depend on the degree of carefulness by the defendant, but are established when a particular action causes damage.

Tort law is state law created through judges (common law) and by legislatures (statutory law). Many judges and states utilize the Restatement of Torts (2nd) as an influential guide. The Restatement is a publication prepared by the American Law Institute whose aim is to present an orderly statement of the general law of the United States.

If you have some time, this description of tort law will probably prove to be interesting:

Theories of Tort Law

But I think you will plainly see that the shipping companies are without a doubt inflicting harm on us as an entire industry, and this is being done knowingly and willingly on their part, regardless.

I believe it is time to make them stop.

My EXTREMELY limited experiences. I've received snakes six or seven times. Once was FedEx, once was UPS, once was (to my intense displeasure) USPS, and the rest of the time it was AIRBORNE. Only the USPS didn't make it overnight (and i've lost 7 out of 9 of those snakes). Most, if not all, of my shipments have NOT been labeled as to contents. As far as I know, none of my shipments have been refused or not sent as planned.

As far as those I've shipped, I have an even more limited experience.... only ONCE have I shipped a snake... I shipped it via UPS. it was labeled "Live Harmless Reptile" and "Lampropeltis Getula Goini" But did NOT say "snake" anywhere. I took it to the UPS shipping location, and they said nothing about the labels, and I said nothing about the labels, and it arrived overnight just fine with a healthy snake in it.

This year I plan to breed a lot more snakes, and therefore hope to ship more snakes. Going on my single experience I will probably continue to ship through that UPS store the few times I ship out, but it is certain that there will come a time when these discriminatory practices WILL effect my attempts to do business via the internet.

Just a few months ago someone asked about Airborne, and I posted how they were a friend to my business. That I had been using their service for years.
Since that post, I've been in a none stop nightmare with them.
I shipped a box that was suppose to go to North Carolina from Indiana. I didn't make it. It when as far as Ohio and was returned. The reason, they said the box was damaged and was leaking. Ok, so I got it back. No damaged found, no leaks seen. (how can a snake leak?)
So, I re-boxed the animals in a different container and called them back out, and the second trip went off with out a hitch.
Ok, now guess what? I got not one but two invoices for both shipments and they totaled up to over $400!!
I called them the minute I got the bill in the mail. I was told they would handle it and to have a nice day.
I got a letter a few days later, stating they reviewed my complaint, and according to policy I only had 48 hours after shipping to make said complaint.
I called back and stated how can I call and complain without knowing I had a complaint to complain about? IT gets worse from here....
I've called weekly now for going on three months. I've started to get letters from a collection agency.
Now, all I say is I'll just settle up when we go to court.
I now drive an hour each way to ship with Delta.
Anyone know a good lawyer?