What method do you use to ship?

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Dana

Yes, I sent them an email earlier today proving links to the petition as well as the two threads here on the BOI.

I guess I'm a little late on the whole mad posting hour it seems, but I'll put in my two cents worth on the subject anyway.

I'm relatively new to the corn snake breeding business. I'm not anywhere as large as Rich or Don's businesses by any means. But I do ship out of my home occasionally. 98% of my snakes I have now were shipped to me using three shippers: UPS, Fedex, and Airborne Express. UPS is ok, but they tend to be slow and drop off my package in a complete other town. Fedex is better about having my stuff here before noon. And Airborne Express was an utter nightmare. Couldn't find my house with a map and directions, and I ended up having to drive 30 miles nearly 40 hrs after they were shipped to pick them up.

For my own shipment needs I first tried using UPS Overnight, as I thought if the larger name breeders can do it successfully with "Live animal and stuff" written all over the outside of the box, so can I. It worked for a couple of shipments. The second shipment the UPS driver tells me that he can't ship animals as he points to the labels on the boxes. I simply told him I'm just reusing the box.

Then as I send out a third shipment, I get a call 6 hours later from the UPS depot 30 miles away for me to come and pick up my snakes, because they don't ship live animals and least of all snakes. I'm a little perturbed by this as I used the plainest shipping box I could find. I put no mention of what was inside the box at all, no references on the shipping label, nothing. They simply opened my box and saw what was in there and phoned me up. So I grab a box from Rich Z (sent via UPS), cut off the flap with the shipping label and drove down to discuss with the UPS people why my shipment was excluded and opened.

I spend an hour getting down there and am greeted by the rudest customer service person I think they could find to work. She immediately starts reaming into me about how irresponsible I am for shipping live animals and least of all a snake. It could be deadly for all they know. So I calmly wait for her to finish her tyrade and calmly put in my portion of the argument. I tell her that when I first started shipping out snakes I wanted to make everything legit, so I put all of the necessary information on the outside of the box. But as time went on, I was informed I could not ship animals. So I resorted to simply sneaking my packages through, something which I know is wrong. But what else am I to do? I can't just pick up and drive to Tennessee to deliver a snake. I then ask why this particular person can ship thousands of snakes a year via UPS, advertise that fact on the outside of the boxes and get away with it? She tells me that Rich doesn't have approval to do so and risks his animals everytime he ships. And that they will pull a box out of transit if they feel it's breaking the rules. I ask her to refund my shipping cost because it never went to its destination. She refuses and I ask to speak to the manager on duty. He refuses my request for a refund and tells me to call the 1-800 number. I do that and I leave two messages and they never call me back. So I'm out around $35. I come back home.

At the same time I'm negotiating for a couple of snakes through Don at SMR. I tell him my plight and he says I should continue fighting it. He said that if some people can seemingly get by with it, so should I. And I agree. If I jump through all of the necessary hoops I should be able to ship right along with the other breeders. So I take his suggestion and use Fedex. I've been using them for nearly a year now without a problem. The Fedex driver, a family friend and neighbor, knows what I'm shipping and takes every precaution to make sure that my packages get through. He says Fedex unofficially takes a "don't ask, don't tell" policy when it comes to questionable shipping contents.

There needs to be a legal even ground for everyone. No offence to Rich or Don, but what makes them so special that they can ship out thousands of hatchling corns a year with warnings and advisories printed on their boxes, and when I try to reuse a box from them it gets singled out and I'm forced to reclaim the animals. I think the average person can tell the difference between a venomous snake and a non-venomous one. If I make all of the necessary arrangements as to taping their deli-cups tight, encasing them in crumpled/shredded paper, with heat/cool packs and styrofoam..I'm not any different than anyone else. As long as the shipping company does it's job and gets the package there on time and knocks on the door to get a signature or heeds the temp warnings, there shouldn't be any problem.

There definately needs to be something done about it, and I'm glad I'm not alone. If they'd actually make it available to get approval to ship they'd cut down on the instances of sneaking packages through for sure. We don't like to ship that way, but that's what it takes. Let a rep come to my home and see what I'm shipping out, give me a special number and account and it'd be all done. Imagine the revenue they would receive if they charged for the "special" accounts, money is the universal language after all.


Misty Lundberg

I ship about 100 packages a year, nothing compared to a lot of you, but still about $3,000 a year income to UPS, again not alot to them either.

I have always shipped UPS with no problem, other than the occasional couple hour delay. They always refund my money on delayed shipments even if it is only 30 minutes. I always ship in a box that is in good condition and designed for shipping reptiles. My labels are preprinted by UPS saying "JE Reptiles".

I think some of the problem is tied back to others in the trade, shipping in boxes that are almost falling apart or smell of reptile waste. I have received animals in boxes that made me embarassed to accept them. Old cricket boxes used to ship animals, Wheaties boxes (that is right cereal boxes) taped up with baby chams inside and a number of sorry excuses for acceptable shipping boxes. My boxes are often reused and not new, but they are always sealed and packed properly and never falling apart and always in good condition. This just sends a bad message that we are not serious or cautious about the care. I doubt anyone on here have shipped liked that, but we all get lumped together.

I agree something needs to be done, but I also realize that something on our end also needs to be done. If UPS or whoever sets it up for us to ship with their approval, you will still have these problems and it lumps all of us together.

So some professionalism on our part (that is everyone that ships) might help the situation. Also, if they made it legal to ship non-venemous, someone will still break the rules, so it is probably easier to just say none, that way they are covered in a bad situation.

Just my opinions........ good or bad......... moost situations have two sides......


Eddie Holtz
JE Reptiles

My two cents worth is this:

I have never shipped any live animals but have received many over the last few years, via UPS, Fedex, and Airborne. I've never had any problems with any of these but the potential is there. As a "customer" this is risk that is assumed. Yes there is a large airport within 30 minutes of me so I can receive Delta Dash but have passed up opportunites because I did not want to use that as a carrier. Mostly due to cost and not being able to get there when the animals arrive in a timely manner. The convenience factor is what most people are going after. Why go through all the trouble when you can get it shipped to your door. I'll be honest in saying that I don't get my reptiles shipped to my house but rather to my work and since we get a lot of boxes, mine becomes just another one that they don't notice. I always let the receiving clerk that I'm expecting a package and they always let me know when it arrives. But from having several friends Fedex and UPS, they tell me to not say anything at all, just keep in business. They also tell me to make the boxes neat and firm and most of the time they'll just pass it through. But it really does pay to make friends with the drivers or the customer service clerks. I hope one day that I'll too be able to ship "live harmless snakes" and would be willing to use the carrier that would provide an avenue to do.

Scott Robinson

I have never sent or recieved snakes as of yet. I do plan on purchasing and recieving several this coming year though!

However, about 8 or 9 years ago...I purchased a wild caught prairie dog pup from a ranch in Texas. It was sent to me in an open sided (chicken wire) wooden crate via Airborne Express next day. It was plainly marked on it that the contents inside was a "LIVE PRAIRIE DOG"! And if you tried real hard you could see her.

Just wondering if this was ammended to there shipping policy, with the whole "monkey pox" ordeal? That was traced back to a pet store in Chicago selling prairie dogs with the disease!

Anyway, my point is...what is the concern about captive bred non-venomous snakes? To my knowledge if even they were infected with something, nothing a snake has is transmitable to humans!

Sorry like the title suggests...I was slightly off topic with this post but I was trying to make a point. They had no problem shipping a WILD CAUGHT animal known to be able to carry disease that could reflect on humans but they won't ship a captive bred non-venomous snake? Seems a bit ass backwards to me! Sounds almost like someone at the helm of things is a bit frightened of snakes, actually! Or seriously uneducated about our hobby/business.

Just adding my .02,

Quigs

I got my approval letter today. ALl I have to do now is call my local sales rep. to get the 'legal paperword" (As they call it) set up and finalized.
I will post pics of the paperwork that came with it.....I asked them to send my box back as it was an option on the form I filled out.

FOR THOSE OF YOU JUST STARTING OUT!!!!!
I really do not think you NEED to talk to a sales rep. What you will have to do is go to the link below.
http://fedex.com/us/services/express...ging/tips.html

go down to the bottom with the heading "Packaging Testing or Evaluation". Click on that link and it will bring up a form. You have to print it out and send it to the address at the bottom of that same page.

I got my acct. last Monday, I didn't get around to sending the "test package" out until Friday and I go the results and box back today. So it took less than a week once I shipped off the box.

The reasonI say you would not need to talk to a sales rep. is because when I talked to mine, all they did is give me the directions I just gave you all here. Nobody at the testing lab knew the box was coming, I just sent it on it's way.

Give it a try folks, it reeally is easier than I thought it would be!

Here is what the page you are looking for will look like!

Brian,
Is this going to make it legal for you to ship live snakes? I checked out the page you mentioned and it doesn't mention anything about shipping live animals. I'm not sure what is accomplished by sending a test box. I know you didn't put a live animal in it. Maybe I missed an earlier post, by you, describing the purpose of this. Please enlighten me, cause I would love to be able to ship legally!!
Rick
Renegade Reptiles

I would be more than happy to explain. First, lose the word "legal", there is nothing illegal about shipping with FedEx, just against their company policy.

You are right, the form is a general one. That is why I also included a letter that states what I sell and what my goal was (to use them for shipping).
On the form, line number 3, it states "Product description", thatis where I put in "NON VENOMOUS SNAKES". This way they know exactly what I am looking to do.
Also, on line % where it says "inner packaging..." under description there, I put non venomous snakes again.

With the paperwork I was sent today, it says, "The above described packaging for the shipment of live animals meets the FedEx minimum packaging requirements and is 'accepted' for domestic transport. Before shipping can begin you will need to contact your local FedEx acct. rep. to complete and impliment all necessary legal paperwork."

They know what is being shipped. The form is just to be use for any and all shippers no matter the content. THat is why they ask what the contents are.

Hope this helps, if not please ask more questions.