The BOI will be coming to an end on 02-02-2020

Originally Posted by RGMinc

Straight up we here at RGM feel strongly killing the BOI is a huge mistake and are completely willing to MOD the entire thing without complaint. This is a necessary part of doing business the trades have grown to big and there have to be stop gaps to allow people to know who they are dealing with and keep reputations in check. There was a time when anyone in the trades knew who everyone was because the circle was so small those days are long gone every one with a computer can pretend to be a real deal “known” breeder. Facebook has made it even worse. Please reconsider the his action.

Reconsider? Well, sure, I am always willing to reconsider any decision I make. But I need a good reason to do so. Basically I have laid out the equation that is equivalent to 2 + 2 = 4. (A)Many people have abandoned support for the BOI/FaunaClassifeids + (B)I can no longer continue supporting the BOI by defending it against a frivolous lawsuit because of this lack of support = (C)the BOI has to go.

So in order to reconsider that equation, one or more of the following needs to be true:

1. The equation is missing a value that would change the result
2. I have misinterpreted one or both values
3. Something has changed to make the equation invalid
4. The equation has been faulty from the beginning

So which of the above applies here? Certainly just rehashing the same information and the same values would be a waste of time, so what has changed or what have I missed that needs to be reconsidered?

I seriously try to look at things from every angle I can think of when making decisions about this site, but that is not to say that I believe I am infallible and all knowing. So if someone can see flaws in my logic, then please, by all means, point that out to me. I am certainly willing to listen, and if applicable, to reconsider.

Ok I look at most everything scientifically. The boi lost quite a bit of traffic when it was made only accessible to donating or pay members. I would change it back to an open forum, I would put in place a clear cut set of rules where actual facts ie email strings text strings etc must be included as well as photos to make a negative report. This assists in stopping the frivolous lawsuit issue. Here are the facts this is my proof that is the reason for a negative report. I would not allow threads that are 3&4 years old to be bumped. Unless say the same bad guy was at it again. I would allow the accused to present their case but only if they can also present proof..... these are just a couple of quick ideas at 2am

Originally Posted by RGMinc

Ok I look at most everything scientifically. The boi lost quite a bit of traffic when it was made only accessible to donating or pay members.

Well yeah. The traffic loss was from those people no longer able to access that forum. That was expected. I actually closed it down to all but contributing members this past February, but decided to temporarily reopen it because comments were made that new members would not know what they were losing by not being able to view it. I guess some suspected that an influx of new participants and perhaps contributing members might make a difference concerning closing the BOI down permanently. After 6 months, it was clear to me that it made no difference at all, so I returned it to the closed state it is now in. As stated, the only reason I left the BOI open to paying members was because I felt that I owed them that extra year because some likely did contribute in order to support the BOI. Otherwise, it would have been shut down 02-02-2019 instead of a year later.

Originally Posted by RGMinc

I would change it back to an open forum, I would put in place a clear cut set of rules where actual facts ie email strings text strings etc must be included as well as photos to make a negative report.

I seriously doubt your suggestion would make a single tiny bit of difference concerning the lack of support the BOI needed to survive. So why bother? At this point it would be the equivalent of rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Originally Posted by RGMinc

This assists in stopping the frivolous lawsuit issue.

IMHO, no it wouldn't. Simply because something is provable fact wouldn't eliminate nor reduce someone's ire at having their dirty laundry exposed publicly at all. And it certainly would not deter anyone wanting such information suppressed at all costs from considering filing a lawsuit in order to try to make that happen by making such a threat.

Originally Posted by RGMinc

Here are the facts this is my proof that is the reason for a negative report.

So who is going to prove that the "facts" offered are actually REALLY facts? All types of "proof" can be fabricated by someone with the incentive and skills. For instance, some Joe Blow could claim that he bought something from you, create a realistic looking invoice via Photoshop, and claim that all of the animals had some terrible contagion. Here, this is the "proof" of the lab report that he also fabricated. Would that be believable? Yeah, probably so for some people. How would it be disproved without at least some shadow of doubt about you? Some people will believe that you are lying, instead of him, if he presents a convincing case. Especially if the discussion would be severely limited by rules restricting open discussion. Sometimes a "burden of proof" needs a lot of input from many interested parties in order to reach a threshold of believability.

That is why I never required proof. I knew it was not a feasible requirement that could be enforced, so I didn't even pretend to try.

Originally Posted by RGMinc

I would not allow threads that are 3&4 years old to be bumped. Unless say the same bad guy was at it again.

Why? New information could always be forthcoming that could either strengthen the claims being made, or else dispute them entirely. Why keep members from being able to present new evidence? The whole premise behind the BOI was to allow everyone to present whatever they can and wanted to in the way of proof, facts, opinions, and even speculation. Peer pressure was the presumed force that would be influential in persuading whichever party was seemingly in the wrong to make good on the deal. Unfortunately, that force is now lacking because there just is not a high enough percentage of people in this industry/hobby to reach that needed influence.

Originally Posted by RGMinc

I would allow the accused to present their case but only if they can also present proof..... these are just a couple of quick ideas at 2am

Again, someone would have to prove the proof being offered. As I mentioned, anything can be fabricated by a suitably motivated individual. Lord knows I have had people who wanted statements about themselves removed who forged documents claiming to be from attorneys to try to accomplish that goal. So participants could merely submit evidence in whatever form they felt relevant, and it was entirely up to the readership to make their own determination as to what constituted "facts" and/or "proof". No one here was going to try to make any sort of judgment call as to what was actually real or contrived. That puts a burden on me that I have never been willing to accept.

I am sorry, but this is pretty much all old news in reference to how the BOI should be run in one person's opinion. It would make no difference in the decision to close down the BOI at all, because it doesn't change anything in the equation. So there really is nothing for me to reconsider.

But thank you for the concern and the attempt to help.

First of all I want to thank Rich(Webslave) for all you have done for this website and for creating Fauna as well as the BOI in the first place. It has been a HUGE asset for me over the years when it came to doing business with people. I have spent alot of time here sometimes just to browse but alot of time has been spent in the BOI reading threads or doing some investigating of my own on any business or person I have been interested in doing business with before entering into business with them. It has saved me countless times from doing business with some pretty sketchy people that had the option not been there I may have otherwise done business with and ended up regretting it later on. I will continue to spend time here I am just sad that the BOI will now be out of the equation come next year. While I know it is too late now to turn things around and you have made up your mind and I truly understand I just wanted you to know from my stand point how truly grateful I am for all you have done and how much of an asset the BOI has been for me and how much I appreciate it ever being an option. I also know I am not one of the top posters here but I truly love and value this website and as I have already stated I am truly sad and disappointed to see that the BOI is going to be gone for good. So thank you again Rich and also to all the Moderators here that have helped to keep the forum under control as well. I at one point reached out about becoming a moderator and would do anything I could to help you out as far as this website,this forum, and the BOI are concerned because that is how much I value this forum and the BOI because it is not only an asset for me but for many of us that are in this hobby. I know my words and my help aren't necessarily needed or required but if there is anything I can do please dont hesitate to ask or reach out!

Originally Posted by arkangel8508

First of all I want to thank Rich(Webslave) for all you have done for this website and for creating Fauna as well as the BOI in the first place. It has been a HUGE asset for me over the years when it came to doing business with people. I have spent alot of time here sometimes just to browse but alot of time has been spent in the BOI reading threads or doing some investigating of my own on any business or person I have been interested in doing business with before entering into business with them. It has saved me countless times from doing business with some pretty sketchy people that had the option not been there I may have otherwise done business with and ended up regretting it later on. I will continue to spend time here I am just sad that the BOI will now be out of the equation come next year. While I know it is too late now to turn things around and you have made up your mind and I truly understand I just wanted you to know from my stand point how truly grateful I am for all you have done and how much of an asset the BOI has been for me and how much I appreciate it ever being an option. I also know I am not one of the top posters here but I truly love and value this website and as I have already stated I am truly sad and disappointed to see that the BOI is going to be gone for good. So thank you again Rich and also to all the Moderators here that have helped to keep the forum under control as well. I at one point reached out about becoming a moderator and would do anything I could to help you out as far as this website,this forum, and the BOI are concerned because that is how much I value this forum and the BOI because it is not only an asset for me but for many of us that are in this hobby. I know my words and my help aren't necessarily needed or required but if there is anything I can do please dont hesitate to ask or reach out!

Thank you....

It is a shame that the support (contribution wise) was not there when needed.

Originally Posted by dragonlvr64

It is a shame that the support (contribution wise) was not there when needed.

Just so there is no misunderstanding about the cause, it is not solely the financial aspect that has called all the shots here. There is also the fact that the numbers of just plain vanilla participation and visitation by the membership has fallen way down. Those numbers are just downright disappointing, to say the least.

And perhaps a major contributing fact is that this site, as a whole, is not as mobile friendly as it could be. But a conversion of the code, or a migration to an alternative more mobile friendly platform (if one even exists that is even modestly compatible for a conversion) would be quite an undertaking. One which I am not convinced would be worth my effort and expense any way. It could very easily all turn out to be a complete waste, just to find that nothing was gained from it concerning traffic and finances. And perhaps the change itself would be enough to tip over the entire site into oblivion. That would be a genuine risk to be considered. All that just to try to save the BOI? Sorry, but I don't think it wise.

Personally, I believe FaunaClassifieds will survive, regardless of the demise of the BOI. So we shall see.

Rich,

2 years ago Facebook put out a warning for their members pertaining to their terms of no animal sales posted on their site .
This year they are carrying out the warning in a more strict way more direct leading to elimination of membership.
My point, there is a lot of trading now on facebook I think will move back with Good Folks like yourself and your team soon enough .
Hang in there, and as far as a Fee for posting classified adds as a non contributor or sponsor there should be some compensation for you, nothing is free and your work has real value, figure out some charge based on # of sales or adds.
Facebook can go hug a tree ..... :-)

Originally Posted by kfcfeeders

Rich,

2 years ago Facebook put out a warning for their members pertaining to their terms of no animal sales posted on their site .
This year they are carrying out the warning in a more strict way more direct leading to elimination of membership.
My point, there is a lot of trading now on facebook I think will move back with Good Folks like yourself and your team soon enough .
Hang in there, and as far as a Fee for posting classified adds as a non contributor or sponsor there should be some compensation for you, nothing is free and your work has real value, figure out some charge based on # of sales or adds.
Facebook can go hug a tree ..... :-)

With Chris, !

Quite frankly, closing down the Board of Inquiry AND start charging for members to utilize the classifieds is about the best way I can think of to scuttle this entire site. IMHO.