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Board of Inquiry® This forum is provided exclusively for the discussion of specific persons or businesses in the herp industry. YOUR FULL NAME is required for each message you post.

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Old 12-07-2004, 09:27 PM   #91
I wish you luck, like I said and that email shows, you are not alone in the same problems.

Some times the credit card compamies come back and say the amount was for an item and you received that item, anything after it is civil. Many sellers count on that. That is not a reflection on the merit of your claim. But I have also seen them reverse charges on a sale that was not as presented, with the willingness of the buyer to return what was purchased, and you have already stated that was not a problem.
Old 12-17-2004, 12:52 AM   #92
Bad for buisness...

I recently purchased a Flame X Blood cross from terri...last night actually! It's supposed to arrive within the next 12 hrs, so I'm pretty excited. I am, however, worried by this thread. I read every page in the hopes that terri would at some point give her side, make a formal apology, or something....

We all make mistakes...it's no big deal. So far my dealings with her have been great. She offered me a hold-back quality for the breeder quality price, admitting that it lost the tip of it's tail before telling me about the quality. I had planned on later on purchasing a female (have another baby dragon, but it's looking like I got a male at home and another on the way now) but am unsure about purchasing one from her after all this. Hopefully it all gets resolved before I'm ready to make my purchase.

Old 12-17-2004, 01:35 AM   #93

Is it just me or does it seem like every breeder term their offspring as "holdbacks"?
I am not saying that you aren't getting a "holdback" quality animal. I just think the term is overly used. I am a salesman by trade and "holdback" to me is just another sales tactic. I may be stating the obvious but we need to come up with another slogan or term, like "I would keep it myself but I really need the money". Just my opinion.

Did you make mention of this thread when you dealt with her? You mention in your post "we all make mistakes... it's no big deal". It is a big deal when your mistakes are not admitted or corrected. I am sure if what happened to Jonathan... happened to you, it would be a big deal. Hopefully you get a healthy, quality animal.

Happy Holidays!!!

Old 12-17-2004, 02:43 AM   #94
Guilt by silence. An innocent person would plead their case, no?
Old 12-17-2004, 09:54 AM   #95
Originally Posted by Bthacker
Did you make mention of this thread when you dealt with her? You mention in your post "we all make mistakes... it's no big deal". It is a big deal when your mistakes are not admitted or corrected. I am sure if what happened to Jonathan... happened to you, it would be a big deal. Hopefully you get a healthy, quality animal.

Happy Holidays!!!

That was pretty much what I was thinking when I said we all make mistakes. As for "holdback quality"...I'm in sales too, and completely agree with you on that. The REAL problem is though, there's really no standard to judge animal quality. It's all breeder P.O.V. A holdback quality with one breeder is an animal another sells to a petstore for $30. Since I'm paying $100 for my dragon, it's not too big a deal to me that I couldn't see a pic of the actual dragon...but if I'm paying more than that, you better believe I see the dragon before I pay for it.

Happy holidays
Old 12-17-2004, 09:55 AM   #96
Originally Posted by DragonCharm
Guilt by silence. An innocent person would plead their case, no?
To me, this is simply a clear-cut case of somebody unwilling, and unable, to own up to their mistakes....it's really sad actually.
Old 12-17-2004, 01:09 PM   #97
Not all breeder play that everything I sell is a "holdback", I think in the last five years we have sold 3 as that, and purchased none as that.

I do find it interesting that according to the above, a breeder quality is not a hold back quality... I know the ones we DO hold back are BECAUSE they are breeder quality and we keep most of them! Thats why we hold them back.

BTW, this is a non hold back dragon, from the same line your getting (not one of Fire & Ice!) and he is flawless, pictures provided before he was shipped and was well prepped for changing and adjusting to new people and enviroment.. around the same price your paying for yours. Here he is 6 months old, 512 grams and 21 inches <--that speaks his genetics!

I still wonder why people would pay that or $500, sight unseen when there are such nice quality dragons out there from reputable breeders that are honest and have integrity for the same or less, that you know what your getting when you buy it
Old 12-17-2004, 02:08 PM   #98

Good looking Dragon. I don't have any Dragons myself right now. The first and only got eaten by one of my favorite Kingsnakes. Please don't hold it against me it was 11 years ago and a big booboo on my part.

As far as the "holdback" thing goes, I just think that some brokers wrongly/overly use the term and some breeders seem to use it too much as well. I have seen the term used properly when not referring to animal they just recieved or a neonate. Maybe putting the word quality after it might help.

If I am ever in the market for a Beardie...I will definitely see what you have(if you'll sell one to me!!).

Happy Holidays!

Old 12-17-2004, 04:02 PM   #99

I did not produce that little guy, he came from Matt @ mystical-dragons.com. I was showing him as an example from that same FlameXBlood line, but crossed into a really hardy large line. Not considered a hold back, the same price or less and also with a breeder that takes the time to make sure they are ready for change in homes so they do not stress. He came out of the box fired up and always is, ready to eat and never missed a meal. Never been a moments problem or concern. He's hearty like bearded dragons should be, no these sickly, failure to thrive babies.

It's not just the breeding, its the care/ time they receive those first few months from the breeder. To me that makes or breaks the dragon... no matter what color, phase or price on them. If you lack that, your off to a rough start that may never improve.

The boy pictured above is a grandson of Chris Allen's dragon "Flame" that the line was named for, out of his son Foster. I followed his parents since they were hatchlings and waited to get one of the babies from the first clutch... for 2 years!

You can find these beautiful, healthy and well cared for babies online for between $100- $200... and they are not called holdbacks, just quality dragons.
Old 12-17-2004, 08:02 PM   #100
Got my dragon

I got my FlameXBlood today and it's eating fine...a perfectly normal dragon. Overall, no complaints and had a very enjoyable experiance buying from her. I don't forsee any problems arising, but if they do I'm sure it'll all be taken care of. If not...she loses a repeat customer. no big deal to me.


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