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Board of Inquiry® This forum is provided exclusively for the discussion of specific persons or businesses in the herp industry. YOUR FULL NAME is required for each message you post.

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Old 10-11-2004, 01:56 PM   #11
$500 is outrageous.
You wouldnt think so if you saw some of their hold-backs. Amazing creatures! The holdback blood red dragons we got from them turned out to be nearly a solid red, almost pattenrless.

I'd really like to hear terris reply on this, something dosent sound right.
Old 10-11-2004, 02:00 PM   #12
To answer a few question;

The infection my previous beardie had was preexisting to my getting her, which I learned after the fact when I confronted her old owner with evidence from my vet. I got Skadi a brand new cage and all new fixtures, I re-used NOTHING.

I fully agree about the temperature, beardies are desert creatures, and my understanding was they liked higher temperatures. It was ONLY at Terri's INSISTENCE that we kept the temp so low for as long as we did. She told me the caresheet was wrong in that respect as it was intended for adults, not young ones, and that snows were more sensitive to high temps than other beardies. I didn't agree with her, but when she said going against what she told us would void the warantee I decided not to fight with her about it. Besides, she's been breeding for a long time I figured she'd know better than I would. Eventually I sought the advice of other breeders, but well, I wrote how that went.

Anyway as things stand, Skadi IS eating like a pig. We however still want to return her as per Terri's gaurantee as we are not satisfied with the experience and do not want to give Teri $500 after what she has put us through.

As for hearing her side of the story, always do that.

Hope this clears up some people's questions, any more fire away.

Jonathan Newsome
Old 10-11-2004, 02:10 PM   #13
answering another question;

feeding Skadi with a syringe was exactly what I was doing with the formula I prepared at Terri's suggestion. I would leave a drop right on the tip of her nose, or drop it in her mouth if she gaped at me. She would eat it about %50 of the time off her nose, the other %50 she let it eventually fall off her nose. By the time I was done feeding her that day her cage was littered with little droplets of formula. As for educating myself. I asked around, I read books, I own three different ones on Beardie husbandry alone, including Dr. Vosjoli's book, plus several magazine articles. As I said before it was only at Terri's INSISTENCE that I kept temps so low for as long as I did. I thought I knew what I was doing, and had prepared myself going into this. It was Terri's alarm, and insistence that I was doing things wrong, and that the warranty would be voided if I didn't follow the instructions she gave me that really got me doubting myself.

Keep posting the question,

Jonathan Newsome
Old 10-11-2004, 02:28 PM   #14
"Anyway as things stand, Skadi IS eating like a pig."

Oh, that is wonderful! That is the most important thing. I wish that little sweetie the best of luck.
Old 10-11-2004, 05:06 PM   #15
I still need to understand the temp thing. Do not get me wrong I amso glad the baby is eating...
Old 10-11-2004, 08:53 PM   #16
K, the temp situation was as follows;

We had the cage setup originally with a hot spot of 110-111 and a cool side that would hit 88 at the hottest part of the day due to a heat wave we were having. When we got her, the caresheet she came with, the same one you see posted on the website, had the temp. crossed out, and hand written in was 75-95. I cross-checked this with "The Bearded Dragon" Manual by Vosjoli, which states "the temperature at the basking site should measure 90-100F", and Happy Healthy Pet's "The Bearded Dragon" by Grenard which states "basking...90 to 93F maximum" and "environmental...80-85F". Therefore, when we talked to Terri and she told us that a temperature over 95 would kill our baby because youngsters are more succeptible to heat, and snows even more so we were willing to believe her. So we lowered the temp by raising the heat lamp, and re-arranging our air circulation and were able to get a cool end with a steady 73-77 and a basking spot with a steady 93-97. When that failed to alleviate the problem, and Terri was becoming more hostile when we spoke, I talked to EBV, and Steve at BCR. They both told me to raise the temp to a 100-110 basking and 80 cool end. After Terri refused to speak to us we decided to go ahead with their advice since nothing she had told us seemed to work. Even raising the temp. at our house didn't work, and that was what convinced us to board Skadi at EBV. EBV kept her at an 80-83 cool end and 100-110 hot spot. Even then it took them several days to get Skadi eating. However, she did start and now that she's home she eats every day with us, which leads me to think that while the initial low temps may have been part of the issue it certainly doesn't explain why Skadi didn't turn around once we raised her temperatures, and why EBV had such problems getting her to eat. Hope that answers your question, any more fire away.

Jonathan Newsome
Old 10-12-2004, 01:32 AM   #17
Jonathan, cooler temps do a lot to slow down a reptile's metabolism. So if you raise the temperature, they won't necessarily start eating the next day nor should you expect them to. It seems like when they've been off of food for awhile, they get used to it and don't have an appetite.
Old 10-12-2004, 11:26 AM   #18
Any idea why Fire and Ice is not responding? I'm just curious why they wouldn't reply if they felt they were justified in not honoring their guarantee.

It's a shame so much of the transaction took place over the phone. Hard to prove a "he said / she said" situation. Yet, if you read their Terms, they really should refund the dragon.
Old 10-12-2004, 12:05 PM   #19

I realize low temps will slow a reptiles metabolism...or at least that's what my Bio teacher tells me Like I said, I thought Terri's temp gradient seemed a bit low, but both books I quoted have the basking spot temp. in the 90-100 range, and she said it would void the warranty if we didn't follow her instructions, so I went with it. Besides, she is an experienced breeder, and I felt I could trust her. Once I turned the temps up I did not expect Skadi to turn around right away. I gave her 2 days, which I'll grant isn't that long, but by then it had been a while since I'd given her the formula so I felt I had to do something NOW to keep her alive. So I packed her off to EBV. Even with them it took her several days, 6 I believe (I'll check with them and get back to you)before she would eat. I did not continue to feed the formula because Terri said dragons could get addicted to it, and refuse other food. I didn't know if this was true or not, but at the time I still felt I could trust her, and saw no reason to take the risk. The really inexplicable thing to me was that through all this Skadi remained alert and active. She never drooped, or showed signs of lethargy. She was always active, watching her surroundings with her tail up, and eyes bright. Go fig huh?

Jonathan Newsome
Old 11-12-2004, 05:23 PM   #20
Just an update, still no word from Terri I see. She hasn't replied to this thread, and hasn't attempted to contact us. Oh well. Skadi is doing fine now, eats every day and is growing like a weed, although not as fast as some other babies I've seen. Although, her gaurantee has been changed now only allowing for replacement of the animal, not a refund. Go figure.

Jonathan Newsome

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