cross breeding geckos

Originally Posted by Playnwifsnot

Ok I didnt read that whole long post,but I argue anything on Wikipedia, I have found things incorrectly stated there, some of my professors have found things wrong on there, and several other people I have talked to have found things wrong with that site. I dont believe anything on it, even if there are some truths

Anyone can add anything to wikipedia. I can go write whatever I want.

There's a lot of good information on there but it's important to be skeptical.

Originally Posted by Playnwifsnot

Ok I didnt read that whole long post,but I argue anything on Wikipedia, I have found things incorrectly stated there, some of my professors have found things wrong on there, and several other people I have talked to have found things wrong with that site. I dont believe anything on it, even if there are some truths

Whether your professors or yourself have found half truths or outright wrong information on a website does not make ALL of the information on a website wrong or incorrect. The fact of the matter is, there are naturally occurring hybrids in nature. Its a pr oven fact. There are deed hybrids, there are bear hybrids, there are bird hybrids, and they are not put together by man. If it can happen, it will happen. If it isn't meant to be, it will either be born sterile, and live out its life, or it will be viable, and breed itself back into the bloodline.

Believe what you want to believe, you made a broad statement that hybridization doesn't occur in nature.... I stated it did, and provided information. you choose not to believe it, so be it. We will have to agree to disagree. Look on the internet and educate yourself if you like, or you can walk around with blinders on for the rest of you life. I feel that it is a natural process to a point, but This is not a way of somehow validating what people do by crossing balls and bloods, or gargoyles and cresteds... I am speaking natural hybridization not artificial....

thats teh pic of the grizzly / polar bear hybrid.... and it is a real photn, not photoshopped, and it isn't from Wickapedia... and neither was the other stuff I posted, they just happened to quote from the site is all. ( and not ALL of the information was quoted)

Originally Posted by Biscuit71

Whether your professors or yourself have found half truths or outright wrong information on a website does not make ALL of the information on a website wrong or incorrect. The fact of the matter is, there are naturally occurring hybrids in nature. Its a pr oven fact. There are deed hybrids, there are bear hybrids, there are bird hybrids, and they are not put together by man. If it can happen, it will happen. If it isn't meant to be, it will either be born sterile, and live out its life, or it will be viable, and breed itself back into the bloodline.

Believe what you want to believe, you made a broad statement that hybridization doesn't occur in nature.... I stated it did, and provided information. you choose not to believe it, so be it. We will have to agree to disagree. Look on the internet and educate yourself if you like, or you can walk around with blinders on for the rest of you life. I feel that it is a natural process to a point, but This is not a way of somehow validating what people do by crossing balls and bloods, or gargoyles and cresteds... I am speaking natural hybridization not artificial....

Hybridization absolutely occurs in nature, 100% true. That's how many animals got to be the way they are. That being said it's different in captivity. We're forcing the issue. If it was for the better of the animals they would've naturally hybridized in NC, but they did not. We should not mess with these things in captivity, just my opinion.

The difference is in the wild they dont do it often, and it is the make of a TRUE species, the way nature intended, not by human hands

I am in no way, shape of form defending people hybridising captive animals... I see no point to it, and I think it takes something away from the animal in its natural form. That being said, i don't feel it is my place to tell them not to because of some form of delusion that it is upon us to keep these animals in their original form to repopulate the world (like some people honestly believe).
I think as far as natural hybridization, if it happens, and we know it does, it happens for a reason. Sometimes, the results of this hybridisation are better suited to an environment than the original parents. I think this is really just a form of evolution in action. Humans are just a small blip in the grand scheme of things... we may not even have all that much longer left, so what we do, say, or think is right, wrong or whatever is not relevant at all. People are against hybrids, and that is their own opinion, and luckilly, we live in a free society, so we are allowed to disagree on things. But people look down on someone that breeds a Ball and a blood python, or a Gargoyle, and a Crested... but they have no problem going out and spending money on a Cockapoo or a Schnoodle, or a labradoodle... OK, so they are all dogs... how did they get so many breeds? Well, of course we caught them in the wild... so we must protect the wild population of poodles... where are they from? Or how about the many different types of cats? Or go even deeper.... Humans... we all come from different places... European, Asians, Native Americans, Native Alaskans, Africans... the list goes on and on... well, it is common place to see interracial relationships and marriages, and society for the most part agrees that it is the right of the people involved to have a marriage or a relationship and have children (except for back woods racists). How is this relevant? Well, Europeans evolved to be how they are based on where they live... Africans evolved to how they are based on where they live... Asians, Native Americans... we ALL evolved to how we are based on where we live... How is that different from Balls and Bloods, or Kingsnakes (most hybridized reptile there is). How is hybridisation between any animal that is capable of interbreeding wrong in that light? Human beings are technically all hybrids. Unless you are 100% English, both parents being English. or 100% Spanish, or 100% Native American, or 100% black, we are hybrids. Some people will say that I am wrong, we are all the same, and blah, blah, blah... fact of the matter is, we are the way we are because of how and where our ancestors settled, and out people evolved... Then we got onto boats or planes, or walked and met new people... many people very different than us... then we had children... not like one parent or the other, but a mixture of the two... How is this not hybridisation in a form? You can not take two totally different species and cross them... it can't and won't happen without a test tube and science. You can however cross two species that have a common ancestor that have CHANGED based on where they live, and their environment. You can cross a ball and blood, and a retic and a burm, and a mule and a white-tail, and a grizzly and a Polar bear... you can probably cross many other things if you wanted to, and they do interbreed in nature, we just don't always SEE it firsthand until someone shoots one or photographs it... so to say it doesn't happen often, are you basing that one personal experience, or because you just KNOW it doesn't happen often? What are you basing that assumption on? As a matter of fact, in the UK right now, they are having a problem with imported Sitka deer breeding with the native red-deer, and the interbreed is better suited to the environment than actually both, so the population is exploding, and soon they are worried there will be no pure red deer left. So people didn't put them together on purpose, they just facilitated it happening be the release of a deer, be it on purpose or accidental. the only difference between Humans and the deer or bear or geckos or pythons or boas, or anything else on this planet we live on that we say is inappropriate to cross is the fact that we are capable to jumping from land mass to land mass and mix bloodlines and races, and whatnot... If a snake was capable of flying to another location and was able to interbreed, you would see nothing wrong with it because it happened naturally, but because we are the facilitators of the process it is wrong, and the person doing it is a demon, and should be ashamed of themself.... personally, i feel that the person crossing the poodle with a mastiff or a lab, or a bulldog is more of a threat than the person making bateaters or bloodballs.....How about mules... I don't hear anyone complaining about Mules and how its wrong...Interbreeding and hybridisation, and evolution of a species or species as a group is a natural occurrence, and it has been going on since long before we came along and decided we had the moral obligation to decide what is wrong and what is right. We aren't talking about 6000 years the bible tells us Earth has been here, or intelligent design, or anything like that. We are talking reality here.... life is meant to find a way no matter the circumstances... it happens, and it is a powerful force...

But the two deer wouldnt have bred without human interference, they are not naturally found in the same area together, mans hand got involved. As you will read in my first post, I dont condem people who mix species, and you also read right there I mention dog breeds as you just did. And yes I laugh at the people who tell me they have a pure bred puggle or a peakapoo...I ask them if they have papers,they say no,I say ok then, talk to my boxer who has papers and we will decide who is a "pure breed". I agree with alot that you say,I just dont see a point in making an animal for our own pleasure like that, and yes back to the dogs,mules the common pet ferret. But I am also a biology major, so i tend not to assume on the biology and behavior of animals. it tends to be very text book with me...I know my one lecture teacher would get a bit irratated with me when i would correct her on stupid things(like when she called snakes poisonious).

But to answer the human breeding, humans are not 2 different species, we are all the same. Depending on where you live your color variation can change due to UV exposure and diet. Like for instance you eat alot of carrots and yams your skin will naturally turn to an orange hue. Whats even more interesting is that people who live in the extream areas like the equator are less likely to get skin cancer than say someone from my city(toledo)...dont remember where I read it, some scientific article in one of my classes...anyways this still doesnt make people from New Guinea any less of a human than someone from Boston. But then again genetics play a big role, just as Europeans are less likely to get aids due to the Y. pestis bacteria. I think I am getting off point...lol ive been up a long time...

You are lucky that your gargoyle hasnt killed your others. One in a million right there. Good luck

It's dangerous to keep aurics in the same enclosure with cresteds. The chances that the cresteds will eventually suffer damage from the aurics is very high, likely I'd say. The size differential and temperaments don't make for a good mix.

Of course species can and have produced offspring with other species in the wild, but that's moot when it comes to making a decision in your basement or bedroom. The crux of the issue, IMO, is that there is no guarantee that the offspring will be infertile. Lance Portal has (if I remember correctly) now produced F2 or F3 generation hybrids between chahoua and ciliatus. While I understand there is something very alluring about breeding two different species together... or in Portal's case or the OP's case, two different genera, every animal you produce brings with it the potential to enter the gene pool and once that happens there is no turning back. How many generations past an F1 Hybrid would it take for an animal to look enough like a crested that nobody could tell for certain what it is? Oh, of course everybody says they'd keep all the offspring away from the general population, but if Portal has produced more than two generations of them, where are they all today? Perhaps he knows, perhaps he has given/sold them to someone he trusts... but people have broken trust before and will do it again. A few months ago, a vendor at Tinley had a crested/chahoua hybrid stolen from their table. I'm sure the thief will be entirely ethical in their breeding efforts... Completely ignoring the fact that it was just sitting there for sale, it just goes to show you that you never know what's going to happen. These animals live for decades, and you're playing with the integrity of entire genera when you try or even allow the possibility of hybrids within your collection.

I'd strongly recommend that you separate the species, not just for preventing hybrid offspring but also in order to prevent tail loss, general stress, and perhaps much worse consequences.

EDIT- I didn't notice that this thread is almost 6 years old. Good grief...

Originally Posted by pakinjak

EDIT- I didn't notice that this thread is almost 6 years old. Good grief...

, but your perspective still currently sounds applicable IMO.