Jeff Leitch (Bad Guy)

I recently inquired about an adult Coastal Carpet Python that Jeff Leitch was advertising on Kingsnake.com. To make a long story short, I ended up buying the male and was sent a sick and parasite-infested animal that was represented as flawless. Here is our e-mail correspondence for those that would like to read it:

Subj: RE: Message about: ADULT coastal carpet python $170 shipped
Date: 2/26/2004 1:03:51 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: bogieman84@hotmail.com
To: brimstonehunter@aol.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)

hi
im not sure who produced him or how old he is i think he is a 99. he is very
nice. i have only had him for a few months. he ate right when i got him but
then he had a messed up eye cap so i didnt try to feed him. he just started
to shed so he should start eating. yes i will guarantee his health and live
arrival.
----------
From: BrimstoneHunter@aol.com
To: bogieman84@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Message about: ADULT coastal carpet python $170 shipped
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 19:12:51 EST

Thanks for your reply. If you don't mind my asking, who did you get him
from?
Also, when he ate for you, what did he feed on? I am very interested in
purchasing him, but I am reluctant until he sheds without eye caps and
feeds okay.
Do you have any sort of references or guarantee in case he does not start
eating again properly? I doubt there will be any problem because Carpets
tend to
be on the voracious side, but I thought I'd ask anyway. In the meantime,
what
forms of payment do you accept?

Thanks and take care,

Lauren

PS. What is your full name?
---------
He wrote this in reply:

Subj: Re: Message about: ADULT coastal carpet python $170 shipped
Date: 2/26/2004 10:07:18 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: bogieman84@hotmail.com
To: BrimstoneHunter@aol.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)

hi
i got it from a guy named ron but i cant think of his last name i just know
his email TheBigSquease@aol.com. his eye cap is off now he just has alittle
shed that didnt come off all the way. i gave him a med rat. he was a pain
about it but he ate it. it took awhile. i take MO and paypal. if you have
any more ?'s feel free to ask. jeff leitch is my full name.
thanks
jeff

---------------
Subj: Re: Message about: ADULT coastal carpet python $170 shipped
Date: 2/27/2004 3:56:53 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: bogieman84@hotmail.com
To: BrimstoneHunter@aol.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)

hi
if you want the carpet soon ill do 160 shipped.
thanks
jeff

----------------

From: BrimstoneHunter@aol.com
To: bogieman84@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Message about: ADULT coastal carpet python $170 shipped
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 17:40:45 EST

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your reply. As far as shipping, what kind of arrangements would
you be making for him? Also, was the med. rat live or something else and
what
did you have to do to get him to eat? I hope I am not being a pain, but I
want
to make sure that he is what I am looking for. Finally, can you provide any
known references? I am interested in buying him, but I would feel more safe
about
purchasing over the internet if you could send me some contacts with other
people you have done business with. In the meantime, you can also look me
up on
the Board of Inquiry, if you like for references of my own.

Thanks and take care,

Lauren

--------------------
Subj: Re: Message about: ADULT coastal carpet python $170 shipped
Date: 2/27/2004 5:50:38 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: bogieman84@hotmail.com
To: BrimstoneHunter@aol.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)

hi
i ship overnight fedex. the rat was prekilled. once he got the eye cap he
kept missing thats why i stoped trying to feed him as far as ref you can
talk to JEReptiles.com (Eddie Holtz) or noahsboas.com (noe perez) you prob
wont get anywere with him though cause he works 24/7 so you prob wont get a
email back. it takes him more than 2 weeks to email me back. those are just
2 people a talk to a lot and they know me. eddie will email you back right
away. he is on the computer a lot. i dont really keep track of everyone i
sell to. sorry.
thanks
jeff
-------------------

So I went ahead and contacted Eddie Holtz of JEReptiles.com. This was the letter that I sent him:

Subj: Jeff L Reference contact
Date: 2/27/2004 9:59:18 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: BrimstoneHunter
To: jereptiles@hotmail.com

Hi there,

I hope this note does not come as an intrusion, but I was contacting you to verify you as a reference sent to me by Jeff Leitch. I am interested in purchasing a python he has for sale on Kingsnake.com, but I wanted to get in touch with someone that could vouch for him as an honest guy with nice reptiles before I sent out payment and he recommended that I contact you.

If at all possible, I would greatly appreciate it if you get back to me on this at your convenience..Thanks and take care!

Lauren Rost
----------------------

Eddie wrote back to me with the following:

Subj: RE: Jeff L Reference contact
Date: 2/28/2004 1:02:30 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: jereptiles@hotmail.com
To: BrimstoneHunter@aol.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)

Jeff is a good guy. I have known Jeff for a couple years. I recently did a trade with Jeff, he has nice quality animals, I would not hesitate to purchase from Jeff. Thanks

Eddie Holtz
JE Reptiles
www.jereptiles.com

---------------------------

Because I could not find anything on the BOI concerning Jeff Leitch, I searched for Eddie Holtz and found some good feedback. Meanwhile, another fellow (Lance) on the www.moreliapythons.com forums contacted me about Jeff Leitch and was interested in purchasing a female that he had proven the male with. I was not even aware that he had a female before this time, but Jeff told the buyer that she had mouth rot and was being treated for it if he was still interested. Lance decided to buy her and he said that upon arrival she did indeed have a bout of mouth rot and may have had a URI as well, but was represented that way, while the male was supposed to be completely healthy. He took her to the vet and was treating her with antibiotics the last I heard.

Meanwhile, I e-mailed Jeff again:

From: BrimstoneHunter@aol.com
To: bogieman84@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Message about: ADULT coastal carpet python $170 shipped
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 10:06:52 EST

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for sending me your references.. I contacted Eddie last night and he
had nothing but praises to say about you, which makes me feel a lot more
secure
about the transaction- thanks for sending me those names. In the meantime,
would you accept a deposit for him while I clear out some cage space? I do
believe I would like to buy him, but I need to ship out and move around a
few
animals before I can receive him, which should also give the weather some
time to
warm up a little for shipping. Do you use an insulated box and 40 hour plus
heat packs?

Thanks and take care,

Lauren
---------------------
Subj: Re: Message about: ADULT coastal carpet python $170 shipped
Date: 2/28/2004 10:41:03 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: bogieman84@hotmail.com
To: BrimstoneHunter@aol.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)

i think i could do that. how long do you think it will take. i ask that
cause i just got a trio of hoggs and i kinda need the space. it doesnt
matter though cause their fine where they are. for this guy i will have to
make a insulated box since he is pretty big. ill do all that good stuff to
keep him warm.

--------------------
I decided to buy the male as he was beautiful in pictures, guaranteed to arrive live and healthy, and Jeff's references worked out. I thought I had done all of my homework, even though I was still worried about purchasing from someone that I could not find any other feedback on. Even though I was planning on sending a 50% deposit, I went ahead and sent a postal MO out for the full amount via priority mail because I had an open enclosure available and the weather was perfect for shipping.

Soon after he asked for my contact information and then e-mailed me to let me know the payment had arrived. We arranged to tentatively ship on Monday, March 8th, for a Tuesday morning arrival. On the 8th, I received the following message which worried me slightly because I had no idea what to make of it.

Subj: Re: Message about: ADULT coastal carpet python $170 shipped
Date: 3/8/2004 4:09:16 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: bogieman84@hotmail.com
To: BrimstoneHunter@aol.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)

i got the box put together so i will ship her tonight. i didnt have much
insulation so i had to use some scrap. so its not the best looking box.
----------------

I replied and told him that as long as the shipper would accept the package and that the animal was safe and warm, then it would be fine because I understand the need for functionality over form. I also asked for a tracking number, which he sent me later that night.

I was slightly upset because upon tracking, I saw that Jeff had opted for the cheaper overnight shipping to which the python would arrive sometime in the afternoon instead of the 10:30 am arrival that I have always thought was safer and fairly standard for those that ship live animals. Nevertheless, there was nothing I could do at that point besides sit and cross my fingers- it was a good thing that I was off the whole day on Tuesday instead of my normal schedule, which has me out of the house around noon- otherwise I would not have been home to accept the package at all.

On the morning the Coastal was supposed to arrive, I found this in my mailbox:

Subj: Re: Message about: ADULT coastal carpet python $170 shipped
Date: 3/9/2004 6:42:13 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: bogieman84@hotmail.com
To: BrimstoneHunter@aol.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)

i forgot to tell you but he does have a few little spots of shed. i didnt
want to stress him out anymore by taking them off.
--------------

Once again, I grew worried, but stuck shed is nothing that I can't take care of with a decent soak or two, so it was not a big deal. The Coastal arrived in the early afternoon and I opened the box immediately. Upon a first glance, he appeared to be packaged very well. I was very happy about that until I was removing him from the bag and I heard and saw him wheezing with his mouth open opening as he gasped for air. When I opened his mouth, he did not have any mouth rot that I could see, but he was very "slimy" for lack of a better word, and every breath he took was labored. I was floored after being promised a flawless Coastal and ending up with an obviously ill animal. He also did have stuck shed all over and since then, I have also discovered that he has a very bad mite problem.

After I set the male up in a heated enclosure in my quarantine area, I e-mailed Jeff the following:

From: BrimstoneHunter@aol.com
To: bogieman84@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Message about: ADULT coastal carpet python $170 shipped
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:18:55 EST

Hi Jeff,

He arrived a short while ago and was packaged very well. I didn't hear the
Fed Ex lady knock at the door, but I opened it because my dogs were barking
right before she left the package. Anyhow, he is a beautiful male but I am
somewhat taken aback because he has an obvious upper respiratory problem
that I was
not made aware of. I haven't checked his mouth yet, but he was open mouthed
breathing and wheezing when he arrived and I am going to need to take him
to the
vet for treatment shortly if he is not doing any better.

Lance told me that the female was showing signs of a URI also upon arrival
aside from the mouth rot, but I expected the male to be completely healthy
because that is what you told me he was. Now, before I do go to the vet
with him,
is there anything else I need to be made aware of?

Thanks and take care,

Lauren
----------------------
I received the following reply and have not heard anything since from Jeff:

Subj: Re: Message about: ADULT coastal carpet python $170 shipped
Date: 3/9/2004 12:59:42 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: bogieman84@hotmail.com
To: BrimstoneHunter@aol.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)

he has never done open mouth breathing with me. he sometimes hissed but it
wasnt a wheez. lance knew the prob with the female
--------------------

I started to send Jeff an e-mail stating that I wanted to return the animal for a full refund immediately, but frankly, I don't have the heart to send the Coastal back to a place where I know he will not be taken care of properly.

I have talked to my reptile vet and have discussed the situation. The male already seems to be improving with each passing day and I believe he will make a full recovery with correct husbandry- as of this moment he is opaque even, so I am hoping to get all that stuck shed off in the next few days. With any luck he will eat for me soon and in the meantime, I am having to treat my entire collection for mites, which is a several day job, but there is no other way around it to make sure that no one else gets them outside my quarantine area.

In my opinion, Jeff Leitch misrepresented his animals and did not care for them properly while he owned them. I will never do business with him again and I would suggest that others do the same.

I took some pictures of the male upon arrival that I will upload shortly. As you will be able to see in the pictures, he is on the slender side and dried out. I only wish I could post a video of his breathing when he arrived.

In the meantime, please keep your fingers crossed that the male Coastal will have a full recovery. Despite his hardship, he is a very sweet animal and I can only hope that he will be with me a very long time.

Regards,

Lauren Rost

Wow, Lauren...I hate to hear that. I have had similar experiences before and I know how it feels to be lied to. I'm glad you have given the Carpet a good caring home. I would not have sent him back either. I applaud the way you have handled this situation thus far....you seem to be the paramount of patience and good manners. I'm afraid I can't say anything good about Jeff.....liars and conmen like himself make me sick. Thanks for posting this so that others may be warned from doing business with him in the future. Good luck with the snake!

I also wanted to add that Jeff has been notified of this thread:

Subj: Re: Message about: ADULT coastal carpet python $170 shipped
Date: 3/12/2004 3:26:02 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: BrimstoneHunter
To: bogieman84@hotmail.com

Jeff,

I wanted to let you know that I posted my experience with the male Coastal on the Board of Inquiry. Please feel free to post your side as you see fit.

Thanks,

Lauren
--------------------

Lauren Rost

Lauren, Again, I'm sorry to hear about the experience you have had. I do hope all will turn out well.

I purchased the female fully aware of the mouth rot issue. I was lucky that it had not reached the bone yet. However, it does sound like the snake does also have a mild URI. That I was not made aware of, but I do feel it should be no problem overcoming that issue provided I continue to give proper care.

I wish your male the best of luck in his speedy recovery. I dont feel like my animal was really misrepresented, but I dont feel there is a reason to have 2 animals in such poor shape if proper husbandry is given.

Lance

Jeez....some people lack fundamental business ethics.....if the animal isn't healthy, you shouldn't have it up for sale.

this girl is so full of <font color=red>[**censored**]</font>. he was not open mouth breathing or anything like that when i had him. i only had this snake for a short time. if there is a problem all she had to do is let me know and she would get her money back.

Essentially, I've already said what I wanted to say but I will comment on the response because I am being e-mailed by Jeff Leitch about this incident as well.

I do not know what the snake was doing before it was shipped, but he was gasping through his mouth upon arrival, as stated in the previous post. I e-mailed Jeff right after I received him. If Jeff did not have the snake long enough to realize it was wheezing, then shame on him for offering the male for sale as a flawless animal. And this also does not address the parasite situation, the stuck shed, or the fact that he is slightly underweight.

It is also important to note Jeff's reply to my contacting him. He did not express concern about the male's condition or ask how he could help. He also did not express any interest in compensation for his health, though he guaranteed his live and healthy arrival. Nonetheless, I did not post on the BOI demanding a refund of any kind. I simply posted my experience with Jeff Leitch, so that others would know to beware.

Here are the e-mails I have received in reply to my letting him know that I posted this thread:

Subj: Re: Message about: ADULT coastal carpet python $170 shipped
Date: 3/12/2004 6:44:04 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: bogieman84@hotmail.com
To: BrimstoneHunter@aol.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)

what the hell are you gonna write that crap for. he was NOT open mouth
breathing when i had him. if you have a problem you need to talk to me
first. i could have gave you your money back. i only had him for like a
month so if there is a problem its not from me.

------------------------------

Subj: Re: Message about: ADULT coastal carpet python $170 shipped
Date: 3/12/2004 6:45:07 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: bogieman84@hotmail.com
To: BrimstoneHunter@aol.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)

and i dont do the cheaper shipping. fedex isnt cheap i ship at night and it
will get there by 3 BUT it always gets there before noon.

------------------------------

I have not sent a reply and I do not intend to. I have been busy all afternoon treating the quarantine area for mites that Jeff sent me with the Coastal.

Regards,

Lauren Rost

you are so full of it. it isnt underweight and it did not have mites. i would have emailed you saying you will get a fefund if you would have gave me time. you just rushed into it and started writing bad things.

Hmmm, it sounds like Jeff got caught and is pissed about it now, LOL. Its easy to see who is being the professional here and its certainly not Jeff.

Jeff for starters you might want to post your full name so all your posts dont get deleted.

I have done buisness with Lauren and she is as honest as they come.And would do buisness with her again.And she does kept in touch I have lots and lots of emails from her on the deal we done.And the trade we done was several months back and I still hear from her from time to time.