The Columbus Reptile show was Raided by Fish&wildlife officers

Gee , what if they tried to control Elaphe gutatta gutatta.

Ahh, the most dealdiest of species. Yes, they should be restricted.



Can't you just picture a Fish and Game tard setting at home right now digging threw a feild collection guide trying to figure out what the he!! an Elaphe gutatta gutatta is?

With this simple thought racing in his feable mind.
"And elephants guts? What did he say again?"

Scott, I don't want to rain on your parade but, if you can't put a name to your sources, please don't use them here. Facts need to be verifiable and without a name it's just hearsay. It's happened several times in recent posts, I don't remember who was doing it so I'm not singling you out, but it really needs to stop.

On a completely different track, way back when when I had my shop we had two under cover fish and game officers come in and try to get one of my employees to sell them california rosy boas. At the time they were not legal to sell in ca, only the baja ones were. They came in at least a dozen times over the course of a couple of weeks. When he refused to have anything to do with it they wanted zonata, ca. mountain kings. No go there as well. We had a permit for cal. kings and gophers and we did sell those but they didn't want them.

We did at the time have a ruthveni in stock. After trying many times, always in street clothes, to get him to sell to them anything that was illegal, they finally came in in uniform and conficated my ruthveni. I was in the shop at the time and they told me it was a zonata. I assured them it was not and even showed them in Markell's kingsnake book what the differences were. They went ahead and took her and said that their scientists would have to verify what it was, that they were not "QUALIFIED" to say what was what. That's right, the officers who had tried to ENTRAP my employee were not qualified to know what snakes where what.

Two days later the snake was returned with no explanation and we never saw them again.

You never know who you are really selling to. This is something that those of us who are honest will not have to worry about. Those who are doing illegal selling or collecting, I hope you all do time. And the sooner you are busted the better for all of us.

I really don't think I would have a problem dropping a dime on someone who was committing such illegal acts. This is not just a hobby but a way of life for many of us and we need to protect ourselves from the scumbags out there. This means some internal policing as well. No more looking the other way when someone is obviously selling illegally obtained animals or those that are not legal to be sold. If we as a group start weeding out the bad guys then we as a group will engender respect of those who would regulate our industry. It's sad but necessary that we, some of us anyway, have this respect to further our own goals to keep and breed and sell.

I think it has finally come to the point where we do something about it or have something done about it for us. I don't like to think what the second option there entails.

Wes Pollock

Originally posted by John Apple
Ya gotta wonder what happens to the confiscated animals that fish & wildlife took, how many were mislabled, and were the natives re-released or froze as evidence.

According to this article the herps will be released into the wild?

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Scott, I don't want to rain on your parade but, if you can't put a name to your sources, please don't use them here. Facts need to be verifiable and without a name it's just hearsay. It's happened several times in recent posts, I don't remember who was doing it so I'm not singling you out, but it really needs to stop.
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Yea.. but.. the information was given to on the fact that I would not name the person, since they did not get cited at the show and did not want any extra attention brought to them. Only reason it was posted because I trust my source. I have been a member here long enough to know what should and should not be posted.

I have no doubt that you trust your source, that really isn't the issue here. I don't know your source, don't know if they are given to exaggeration or minimalization of facts, or what. There is no way for me to verify your facts. Therefore, they don't belong here. Put them in general business or something, but if it's in the BOI it needs a name attached, as stated in the rules you know so well.

Wes Pollock

Once I posted my last post I realized it may come off a little harsher than I meant it to.

Let's look at it from this point of view. Suppose someone makes up a friend who saw something like your friend did. Suppose someone wants to verify this information. Not possible because there is no real person in this instance. I do believe your friend saw what they said they did, but this is not always the case. It's sort of like looking the other way at a captive bred only show when you damn well there are recently imported animals being sold there. How long do you go without saying something about it.

As I said I have seen it several times in the recent past here and it was time to say something about it, it just happened to be you. Nothing personal or anything.

Wes Pollock

That article is downright funny, I would realy like to see the area that people are poaching these albino black rats from. This raid realy angers me, however so do some of the things I see at some of the shows. I live in Michigan and I can tell you I have seen people with well over 100 red eared sliders, fresh babies for sale well under the 4" mark, selling them to anyone who wanted one. I am pretty sure those are supposed to be educational use only. I have also seen someone with dozens of rabbits for sale even after the latest ban. I do not agree with alot of these laws, but people who are blatantly disobeying them are not helping anyone out. And please don't think I am defending the DNR, anyone who knows me will tell you that is not even possible. I agree with earlier posts suggesting that people work on changing laws, but I also think we need to try to obey them until they are changed no matter how stupid they are. Just my $.02
Craig Kade

Please note that I have a Legislative Alerts forum in the Discussions area of this site. I can have that as a single completely open forum for these kinds of issues, of I can subdivide it down by region, state, or anything else you all would find as a workable solution to keeping tabs on legislation that could affect our businesses.

You all just tell me what you need. I am willing to utilize this site to whatever extent necessary to help out. But don't wait for the other guy to do it for you. He's probably waiting on you.

I believe Richard Mott is working on a plan now, so some more of you need to get this fired up emotion directed into motivation to set up a plan of action.

Between registered members and guests, there are around 1,000 people per day whom visit this site. That's not HITS, that's unique individuals checking in here. That's a lot of people to be able to get the word out to when needed. Why not use it?

Wes Pollock ,

I know who Scotts source is and can vouche for the authenticity of his posts and substance in them.

Your off base on this one.

This is a show that I have been going to for over a decade. I know most of the vendors well enough to invite some to my home.

You should really be focused on the issue at hand, the raping of our rights.

No No No that's not my point. It's not about Scott and his source. It's about using verifiable info on this board. It has nothing at all absolutley zip to do with Scott. There have been others on ohter threads on this forum that have done the same thing recently.

I know someone who doesn't want his name mentioned .......

It is becoming more and more frequently done here and I don't want it to get to be commomplace. We need to have facts here, not someone's opinion of what someone else told them.

I don't doubt that both of you have the right info in this particular instance but what if someone like neil or terry lilley came on and said that someone who didn't want to be named said that one of you had sent him sick or dead animals? For this to work properly we ALL have to post only verifiable information. If an exception is made for you then why not them? That's the point I'm making. Or am trying to anyway.

Wes Pollock