The new Atlanta show schedule

Well said, Brett.

I agree. I put on a once a year show in Austin and Randall/Bonnie put on several shows in Texas. We both had tables at each others shows. Lets look at the big picture to keep the focus on promoting the well being of our herp interest. As a promoter I will admit that it is difficult to line all of the ducks in a row and make evryone happy.

Originally Posted by WebSlave

Well said, Brett.

I second that.....

Thanks. I just read back over what I wrote and it sounds like I'm coming down mostly on Cathy. I'm not. Both sides have done their fair share of mudslinging. I just talk with Cathy more so I hear more of her hers. I don't talk to Tony everyday so...I have to hear his crap in bits and pieces second hand...or third hand... who knows? At any rate, I just wanted to say that the post I made prior to this is not directed to either side more than the other. It's going to take both parties and all their little elves to sit down at a pow wow table and work things out.

Originally Posted by JuliusSqueezer

Thanks. I just read back over what I wrote and it sounds like I'm coming down mostly on Cathy. I'm not. Both sides have done their fair share of mudslinging. I just talk with Cathy more so I hear more of her hers. I don't talk to Tony everyday so...I have to hear his crap in bits and pieces second hand...or third hand... who knows? At any rate, I just wanted to say that the post I made prior to this is not directed to either side more than the other. It's going to take both parties and all their little elves to sit down at a pow wow table and work things out.

Dont bring BW into this!!

Brett, I was not hoping for Tony's show to fail. There are way too many good people that vend his shows. You have to remember that when a show fails, a lot of the vendors fail also.

How you feel and how you come across may very well vary though. I believe you because I know you and know that you don't sugar coat anything and you don't seem like a liar. All the Tony bashing gets back to Tony and while he probably does need to be slapped with some reality sometimes...(who doesn't?)... whether you said it or Jason said it, Cathy is taking the heat for it. You can't deny the endless threads and posts on endless sites bashing, poking and prodding him. Cathy will make attempts to get along but her manner of announcing Tony's shows are canceled before Tony announces them canceled, however respectfully written come across a little to eager and glad. and then the rest of the pack comes along with the "Tony's pulled another one or Typical of the lying, cheating crook...etc type posts that once again, makes it even tougher for Cathy to ever get anywhere close to getting along with Tony. You guys have him backed into a corner and then complain when he lashes back. I don't think any of you will ever be best friends but Christ...and yeah, his lashing back seems to be a bit harsher than it should be. That's the danger of backing a rat into the corner btw. They become unpredictable. But anyway...I'll say it again, this has to stop. It has to. Nothing good can come out of any of this bickering, name calling, trash talking. Tony, for all I know may be the biggest piece of crap on the planet...but taking every opertunity to tell the world what you think about him probably makes you guys look bad to just as many people. You are creating a few alies that may or may not stick with you when the going gets tough but you are also creating enemys...as is Tony with his backlash and bad decisions...that incidently have all been highlighted in all the forums over and over for everyone to dwell on...NONE OF THIS IS PRODUCTIVE for the show market. Please stop.

I asked Megan last night, if she knew who promoted the first Raleigh show she ever went to (this was before we met a few years ago) She had no idea. I asked her if that show had have been crap would she have considered going to another show if promoted by someone else. She said no...she never would have thought that deep into it and would have just written off reptile shows as crap. I'm guessing this to be a pretty widespread feeling and why we need to make every effort as promoters and vendors to make our shows better by making them better, not by trying to butcher the other guy's shows. Maybe encourage vendors to vend at each other's shows just to feed the market and give the public the idea that reptile shows in general are huge events and they should come to them all. I don't know what it's going to take to call a truce. But I really hope to see one someday soon before all the shows turn to crap.

Brett, all the BS works two ways. You make it sound as if Tony is perfect & Cathy is the devil. Remember that it takes two to fight. And why weren't you posting when all the lies about Cathy were posted? Come on now, your standing in the middle of the tracks. Whatcha gonna do when the train comes? And it's not a matter of choosing sides. No one is laughing because the Atlanta show failed. I hate to see any show fold. However, who's fault was it? Not mine, not Cathy's, not the attendees or vendors.

I don't think Tony is perfect. Far from it. I love Cathy to death and will do anything I can to help her...including pointing out that this public bashing makes everyone look bad and is going to hurt her as much as him, if not more. If I didn't care about Cathy, I'd just sit back and watch the crash. If I knew Tony better, I'd be telling him the same...hopefully he will catch some of this and think about it. It's just bad business, all this public bickering. And the Atlanta show didn't fail. It could have been better, I'm sure, but I made more sales and money at it than any show to date. Perhaps being the only one selling hooks worked in my favor...Everyone seemed to be making the best of what was there to work with. Some of the customers were openly dissapointed but most seemed understanding of what all went on. But failed? naaa It wasn't that bad. Believe it or not, I'm trying to help. Reptile shows that I went to before I was a vendor were all quite impressive. Now that I'm a vendor, I haven't seen any show with near the turnout as before. Maybe I'm bad luck Or maybe all this bickering is taking a toll. Or maybe Tony is in self destruct mode. If that's the case, it's going to happen with or without the slamfest and I don't see it as too wise to be standing there with the poker in the fire so he has someone to blame it all on. And, as I stated before, if his shows go completely sour, what taste is that going to leave with the customers that come and spend 9 bucks to get in? A lot will just write of the whole reptile show thing as a waste of time and money...dead market is dead market. It doesn't matter who's fault it is or was. That's why I think it would be a wise business move to work out the differences and help promote each other's shows...seeding the market if you will. When the shows in a given area are once again spectacular, people will come regardless of who's name heads the flyers. Everybody wins. I'd compare it with the trickle down economics if I were a republican and believed in that crap.

And the Atlanta show didn't fail.

Brett, you are way off man. The show failed miserably. It seems most venders sold well. That is because the base population followed these sites and found there way there. They came to buy and not to look. Let me ask you something, did you pay Tony a commission on what you sold? Neither did any other vendors. He makes his money solely on what you paid for the tables and what those people paid to get thru the door. He paid over $9k just to rent the room. Add on the other expenses. Are you under the impression that he made money? No brother, that show was a bomb, and it was his third bomb in a row. He lost big in Greenville and Atlanta. Columbus has always been my favorite show, and I hope it continues to be next month, but if this one is another financial bomb for the promoter, I think he will be forced out of this business. I do not know the man’s financial position, but since he lost 2 Atlanta venues for non-payment, and only made payment to Greenville at the last minute, it seems he is having problems. He can not continue to operate in the red. I defended the man early on during the Atlanta fiasco; I thought he was a good man, stuck in a bad situation. But now I think he is a dishonest man, whose arrogance has finally caught up with him. Did he put up big numbers with his early shows? Well, yes…you can not deny that. But the only thing he did right was be on the edge. He was the only market. His numbers were not big because he was a great promoter, they were big cause he had the only show. He is under the incorrect impression that he is a promoting genius. Letting Roark go was a foolish move. Absolutely stupid! Refusing Cathy’s offer to end this bickering and sending her a profanity laden email was idiotic. After the GA Herp Society bailed on him, I offered to do a set up for him. He brushed me off like I was a grammar school kid with a garter snake. His arrogance offended me, and would never again offer to do anything to help the man. And the people I afore mentioned probably feel the same way. It actually bothers me that I have to pay to get in the door of his show, cause I feel like that supports someone I do not care for. But to see my friends, it is a necessary evil. For his Columbia show last year, I rented a van and took members from my herp society to the show, I think I brought 9 total, but I can assure you I will not do that this year, or for any other show I know he is promoting. And I sick of everyone saying, oh I wish him well, he treated me and others like we are beneath him, and I wish him nothing but the worst. I hope he continues to lose money and drops out of show promotion all together, so someone else can take up this circuit and I will not fill bitterness in the pits of my stomach when I pay to go thru the door.