Hybrid Snakes Forum???

Greetings all,

Would anyone be interested in a forum and classifieds section regarding hybrid snakes? Not dealing with color morphs but true mixtures of snakes of different species, Rat x Pine for example. I’ve long been fascinated with hybrids and have offered to moderate the forum but the powers that be want to see if there is any interest first.

So, if this sounds as cool to you as it does me, please let us know with a post here.

Thanks and I look forward to hearing from you.

-SgtFoster

Sergeant S.W. Foster
US Army
www.DesertVets.org
www.IraqfromtheWindow.com

Speaking of hyrid snakes, does anyone know if an Eastern Indigo could be bred to a Pine or Rat? If so, do you know of anyone doing this? If one did that, would the babies require the paperwork?
Thank you very much.

Sergeant S.W. Foster
US Army Reserves
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
www.DesertVets.org
www.IraqfromtheWindow.com

The Indigo people would crucify anyone who actually did that and come darn close to stoning those who propose it.

It's one of the few snakes I see reason for keeping pure. There is a limited supply of bloodlines and they are not all that easy to breed.

Talk of crossing species will elicit heated arguments from many people. Check out the Indigo forum on KS, it's an interesting place. Watch out for dan felice and fred albury though. felice has crossed indigos, I'm 95% on this and albury is a liar. Both of them have lots of folks fooled over there.

I would not do it myself nor would I own any crosses. Maybe years down the road if and when they're like corns, but not at present.

I have no doubt it could be done and only a little that it hasn't happened in the wild at some time, but would want nothing to do with it myself.

I do breed jungle corns, calking corn crosses and have done so for many years so I'm not against hybridization in general, just specifically with Drys.

I personally am all for a hybrid forum. Whether or not they can be controversial they have become a rather big part of the reptile world and it opens a door to new and exciting snakes that never existed before, or at least been seen. There are a lot of big name breeders who do a lot with hybrids, so why should we not have a forum??? I think Wes brought up a good point with the Indigos though. I mean bateaters are one thing, burms and retics are every where and genetically there is plenty of bloodlines to go around without any concern for breeding the pure forms. All in all though I see no reason not to have a hybrid forum, and can't understand why they dont have one yet. Even crappy old Kingsnake has one so why fauna would fall behind is beyond me. Hopefully we will get one over here soon enough. Have a great week, Dan M.

Whewww…I’ve certainly stirred up some emotions with my question. I emailed it to about 20 Indigo breeders who have websites and got mixed results on the possibility of doing, but certainly not mixed about IF I should do it as everyone is against it. The consensus is that it can be done but shouldn’t.

On the other hand, I sent that same question to about 10 website owners who are doing hybrid snakes of other varieties and it was 100% that it can and should be done.

I’m going to explain my thinking to you all and would appreciate opinions, both good and bad. I very much respect you Indigo breeders out there for all you’ve done to learn about, preserve, and propagate these beautiful snakes. I realize many of you are going to have negative feelings toward this, as I’ve already experienced with the answers to my emails. I want you to feel free to speak your heart & mind on the subject as I appreciate your input and thoughts. If someone can give me a sincere reason why I shouldn’t do this, I probably won’t.

That said, what I’m about to tell you is just an idea, I am not even close to implementing it and haven’t even decided if I’m going to…it’s just a thought.

OK, here’s what I’m thinking. What about taking some young female Eastern Indigos just old enough to breed. Feeding them up good and introducing a full grown male Black Pine who is also ready to breed, separating them when the act is done.

Then taking those babies and putting them back with Eastern Indigos. Then with those babies, start breeding for sales. The final product, several years down the line, would be 75% Eastern Indigo and the 25% that’s not would be a big, strong, gorgeous black snake.

Further breeding down the line could lower this percentage even more; bringing the product back to almost pure Indigo.

Now you’re probably asking yourself why? Here are my feelings on the matter. Eastern Indigos are the coolest snake out there, they make wonderful pets, and everybody wants them. However, most can’t afford them or don’t want to mess with the paperwork. Although the debate is still out, most of the Indigo breeders feel that the result of this mix would not require paperwork. If I decide to do this and when I am ready to sell, I would set up a website explaining EXACTLY what they are. I would never try to pass them off as Eastern Indigos. I would be very happy selling these hatchlings for $150 each and without the paperwork involved…I think they would sell like hotcakes.

The ultimate goal of this project would be to get Indigos onto the market for everyone to enjoy.

OK, I’m going to go dig out that footlocker I brought back from Iraq and put on my helmet and body armor and let you all have at me! LOL

Thanks for your interest.

--SgtFoster


Sergeant S.W. Foster
US Army Reserves
SgtFoster@DesertVets.org
www.DesertVets.org
www.IraqfromtheWindow.com

A big female Eastern can easily lay 10 eggs.

Why not buy up a bunch of pure snakes, breed them to other pure snakes and just sell them cheap?

If you're selling purebreds for 150.00 with permits and shipping being another 150.00, you'll sell out all you have everyear. Heck, for that price I'll buy all you produce and sell them to mitch and we'll all make money.

As I've mentioned, I have hybridezed for YEARS but, for some reason, just don't think it's right with this species.

Originally Posted by SgtFoster

Now you’re probably asking yourself why? Here are my feelings on the matter. Eastern Indigos are the coolest snake out there, they make wonderful pets, and everybody wants them. However, most can’t afford them or don’t want to mess with the paperwork. Although the debate is still out, most of the Indigo breeders feel that the result of this mix would not require paperwork. If I decide to do this and when I am ready to sell, I would set up a website explaining EXACTLY what they are. I would never try to pass them off as Eastern Indigos. I would be very happy selling these hatchlings for $150 each and without the paperwork involved…I think they would sell like hotcakes.

While you may be forthcoming about the lineage/ancestry of these snakes, what about the people that will get these hybrids and try to pass them off as the real thing...there are enough people interested in indigos that the profit margin would be motivating for some. The result would likely be the accidental (or incidental, if you prefer) tainting of pure lines...though the sellers would argue: Who would know, so what is the big deal.

The ultimate goal of this project would be to get Indigos onto the market for everyone to enjoy.

But the actual result of this project would be to get indigo hybrids onto the market. See the difference? I believe most indigo enthusiasts would turn up their noses at the hybrids, unless, or until, (as Wes stated) they became so widespread it just didn't matter anymore.

The problem with selling purebreds cheap would of course be the paperwork, which is half my reason for wanting to do this. The other being to bring the price down of course.

Yes, I see and agree with the problem of people selling them as purebred in later years. I guess I feel the risk would be worth the benefit. Besides, people interested in pure bloodlines are going to know to get new stock through established breeders as Indigos are not for the novice right now.

Yes I see the difference between pure and hybrids, but I think I/we can produce a snake that most people can afford and then enjoy.

--SgtFoster


Sergeant S.W. Foster
US Army Reserves
SgtFoster@DesertVets.org
www.DesertVets.org
www.IraqfromtheWindow.com

I don't understand what your thinking is here.

The paperwork is literally 100.00. That's it. IF you truly want to get these snakes out to more people, then seriously, just breed them and sell them cheap.

A hundred dollars may not be much to you but it certainly is to a lot of people.

Also I believe many are intimidated by the paperwork and therefore don’t even miss with it.

--SgtFoster

Sergeant S.W. Foster
US Army Reserves
SgtFoster@DesertVets.org
www.DesertVets.org
www.IraqfromtheWindow.com