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Canadian Board of Inquiry® This forum is provided exclusively for the discussion of specific persons or businesses in the Canadian herp industry. YOUR FULL NAME is required for each message you post.

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Old 02-22-2008, 11:18 PM   #91
and thank you for everybody that has supported me this far, including Varnyard, JimD, The Boidsmith, etc
Mike, i've already told you that both you and i dropped it, but as soon as that was done, you finally get on to the forums, and make up lies about me, you are a very good guy (i can tell you that), but your problem is that you never try to do anything about your wrong actions, and blame others for it just so that you can get away, so as far as i'm concerned, we ARE done, i never wanted to know you anyway, i only wanted a real argentine black and white tegu, and i've lost my long time pet, and friend, and now stuck with a columbian tegu, which i can't clean it's enclosure without having it attack my stick, and gloves
Old 02-23-2008, 12:58 AM   #92
Mike:It is defimation of character to go around telling people untrue statements. So yeah, i can't really do anything about it but i wanted him to know that it isn't cool to bad mouth people when they didn't really do anything wrong. Now, i'm sure that people are going to take that last statement and say things like, ok, so is it cool to rip kids off??
First off, keep your panties on. If you screw me, a "Screw You" is definitely in order, and if you screw up, people have a right to know. You don't get to choose what business deals (or scams) are viewable by the public. We are herpers, and we got eachother's backs.

Mike: I'm not that dumb. And yes, i was quite rude to Bobby, and Bobby, i am sorry for that but you have to understand something. I have been dealing with reptiles since i was in grade 5 and doing shows since 1999 and in all that time, i have done pretty good until i make one mis identification.
Umm well you claimed you looked it up and it was identified as an Argentine. Please show me a link to the website where you saw this. I would love to see this. I housed an abandoned Columbian for a week and as the neighborhood "Reptile Museum" even the neighborhood kids could see that the Col's look NOTHING like the Argentines.

Mike: The most logical situation would just be to trade back. If you buy something from a store and you discover it is the wrong thing, you take it back. He should have just brought the tegu back got his skink back and it would have been done and none of this would be happening but for some reason he and alot of other people on this site are trying to destroy everything i have been working for.
Well again, your attempts at logic resemble an attempt at pissing up a rope. Trades are a barter with the use of a differing currency. Paying for something is a trade, currency for product. So if I sent you 2300$ for a Pied Ball Python, and you sent me a normal, you expect to refund me the money? Yes this is an option, but it's gonna piss me off. You can find the pied, or go buy one. Dave didn't trade for a possible Argentine, he traded for an Argentine, so it's your responsibility to get it done.

Mike: I'm not sure what your plans are after high school but what if you go away to college or university, what happens the the tegus then? Again, not trying to be mean although i'm sure you guys are all going to take it that way but it is a valid point. These animals are going to be around for a long time and these are things you need to think about when planning your education.
What the hell kind of ignorant, and arrogant bull is this? I know folks with 7 foot Niloticus' in their dorm room. Why on Earth would you feel a need to question his integrity on keeping his animals? That is too low a blow to try.

Mike: No offense david but this has put me through alot. You have it ok because these guys are all your friends and it is good that they are supporting you unfortunatly because they are your friends, they will not listen to me. I haven't posted any e-mails because i really don't know how to nor to i feel the need to carry this on any further and i know you are all going to take that as a "oh, he isn't posting his e-mails, he must be a lying, scumbag rip off artist that threatens kids" but the truth of the matter is, i know that i would never do something like that and anyone that knows anything about me know that i would never do anything like that so if that is the way you think then so be it. You obviously don't know me.
You assume more stuff than anyone I've ever heard. Chuck doesn't know David, TheBoid doesn't know him, only a few do and even fewer (none if I'm not mistaken) have ever met him in person. This is stupid, when I said we have eachothers' backs, I meant Herpers in general. PS, my wife who has no idea who David is called you a name that I think Bobby would issue me a warning for.

Mike:I am sorry that i didn't put my full name in the box again, i know i'm going to get another warning but i still don't know how to do that either. And seeing as this is my final post and you all know my name very well by now, i didn't think it would really be neccessary. I am sorry to dave for misidentifying the tegu, i am sorry to nat for dragging you into this and being a little upset on the phone the first time we spoke and i am sorry to Bobby for the way i talked to you on the phone. I think that you are all doing great things in the reptile industry and hope that you have success with it all. But i will no longer be in contact with any of you as i feel that i am constantly repeating myself with no effect. I need to move on now.
You are nuts if you think that you can succeed in much with thread like this without a happy ending. You have lost you friggin' mind. The only way you'll succeed is ripping off more children who haven't learned about the BOI. once a person sees the BOI, it is their lifeline to avoid dirtbags like you.

You have provided no proof for anything, you cower in the thread with a closed mouth and a lurking stare, you claim to be mistreated but not once have apologized or even considerred your wrong-doing. Fix this problem Mike, for your own sake... then you can save your breath, to blow up your date.

Old 02-23-2008, 01:48 AM   #93
Yes Mike, I would say you are well on your way to making a name for yourself, your thread has 91 posts, and 1,966 views so far, I wonder what they all think about you now? And this thread has only been up a very short time, 1,996 views, gotta wonder what that number will be in a few months from now, seeing as it has only been less than a week and you have right close to 2,000 of them.

I did tell you this is one of the largest reptile sites on the internet, correct? Our members number: 46,097, I wonder how many are up your way?? Well with that many views, it won't take long for the word to spread about how you treated this young future herper. I hope it was worth it, everything could have been over long ago if you would have only done the right thing. Oh well, can't say I did not try to help you, as the old saying goes, you make your bed, and it is up to you to sleep in it.
Old 02-23-2008, 01:04 PM   #94
critical bill
Still waiting on that vet report. Guess it doesn't exist.
Old 02-23-2008, 02:34 PM   #95
I find it conspicuous that at the beginning of this thread David seemed rather timid and did not want to pursue this. He seemed to have an air of fault around himself as well. That could be taken as intimidation from Mike, but as I have already alluded to, it could also be taken as he was wrong himself in part. Then, add the support of some people from this forum, and suddenly David is very adament about proving his 'rightness' but as Nat has said it is all "he said she said" now since neither can succinctly prove their point.

If Mike offerred to trade back, then I view that as being an attempt to make things right. I know first hand that mistakes can be made and sometimes the other party puts you at fault. I went through a somewhat related experience a couple years ago this time with discus (fish) that I sold that died in someone else's care. It was an ordeal that dragged on for months and I ended up losing a lot of money in the end. It put me into such a funk that I am all but done with the fish hobby now especially since it showed the true colours of many who are involved in the hobby in my area. The fish hobby was something I used to be passionate about and now I am not at all thanks to these dealings.

I also need to question the people in this thread who have ridiculed Mike for 'doing business with a minor' when they themselves want to buy David the right tegu and send it to him. That is business of sorts as well. And it seems contradictory to me. As well, I also question the move of sending a 16 year old minor yet another large-growing reptile that requires large amounts of food, a spacious enclosure, etc etc. It seems just a touch hypocritical in the end... As well, related to the age factor, I somewhat question David's maturity level. I know that age doesn't necessarily bring maturity. But this all reaks of 'high school' to me. Especially the bolstered ego that David seemed to approach this issue with after he found out 'people were on his side'. Empowerment? Maybe. But maybe, as well, he's been told time and time and time again how badly he got 'ripped off' and that he should really do something about it. Kind of like the kid who gets shoved in the halls and ends up picking a fight after school...

Again, I will say that I believe out of everyone who has commented in this thread, that Nat has it right when it was said that this is all "he said she said" now and that a definite answer will never be found. I feel bad for Mike, in a way, because he was painted in a very poor light from the start and never truly had a chance. He was judged guilty before being given the chance to prove his innocence. And, again, because of the "he said she said" nature of all of this, it is very easy for people to find holes or point out that certain dots don't connect and hold that against Mike.

Also, in talking about the 'value' of the animals involved, let's not forget that they are living things and have some intrinsic value in and of themselves. Otherwise we might as well just start trading hockey cards or something to that effect.

I hope I have no inserted myself in the middle of something here, but having followed the thread for a few days now, I thought it would be worthwhile to state something in here. I think Mike and Nat are right in stating that this will likely never be adequately resolved, which is honestly too bad.

--Stephan Picher.
Old 02-23-2008, 02:49 PM   #96
Well it seems I somehow missed the final page of this thread. (Page 5 for me, I believe I have my settings to 20 posts per page.) So some of the issues I brought up were addressed in these final messages. But I feel the devil's advocate roll was still warranted in such an inquisitorial review of Mike's actions.

Also. I am curious why the vet bill is such a point of contention now? Is it just to prove Mike a liar or does it serve some other purpose? Just curious.

--Stephan Picher.
Old 02-23-2008, 02:53 PM   #97
Well Stephan, I guess mike did not lie then? No, he was caught from day one, remember, he done the research and David got what was promised, an Argentine. No, that was a lie. And Mike provided proof he offered a trade back, no, he said in the very first email to David, the deal is done, sorry David, but your just stuck. And then we have the threats to sue if David says anything. And least but not last, no proof the skink ever seen a Vet as claimed by Mike. How many lies need to be told by Mike? I mean, are you sure you read this thread?

Where exactly did I ridiculed Mike for 'doing business with a minor'? I have told him from day one to do the right thing. David is a minor, does that mean it is fine now that he is stuck with Mike's crappy animal?

No Stephan, I do not feel sorry for Mike, and he is the one here that has many questions that he has failed to come close to answering.
Old 02-23-2008, 03:00 PM   #98
Originally Posted by Mettle
Well it seems I somehow missed the final page of this thread. (Page 5 for me, I believe I have my settings to 20 posts per page.) So some of the issues I brought up were addressed in these final messages. But I feel the devil's advocate roll was still warranted in such an inquisitorial review of Mike's actions.

Also. I am curious why the vet bill is such a point of contention now? Is it just to prove Mike a liar or does it serve some other purpose? Just curious.

--Stephan Picher.
You bet, do we really need another reason? If Mike lied about the Vet, than how can he be trusted to be telling the truth about anything else? We already know he lied about the animal he traded David. It is not an Argentine, and Mike never did any research at all like he claimed. He also never offered a trade back, from the very first email he stated the deal is done, and David is just out of luck getting the skink back.
Old 02-23-2008, 03:02 PM   #99
it's more about willing, i am more than willing to care for a animal whatever it is, i've cared for all kinds of animals for years now and i've been around these animals in the past, it's just my first time actually owning them (just the big lizards like tegus)
i have stated my point and can go further, it's Mike that isn't posting his e-mails that i've sent him, he claimed that the whole reason why i wanted to get rid of my skink was because of a infection that is starting to develop, and he found out about it after taking the animal to the vet, the first phone call after the trade was in middle of the night, and it was me that called him, after i found out that he called me a little bit before, i've asked him if it was possible if he could take the columbian back and just find me a real argentine, then he went on and on about the errors that i've made and started to yell at me for some reason, i could hardly over talk him, and said thank you, bye, and hung up, that was the story, i was never offered a trade back and neither do i or some people here think that he has taken the skink to the vet, a theat is a threat, weather if i was not a minor or not
and i still can't get over the fact that Mike did not know if i was not a adult, didn't he saw my parents when he stepped in? did he not even talked to me in person?
Old 02-23-2008, 03:05 PM   #100
critical bill
Originally Posted by Mettle
Also. I am curious why the vet bill is such a point of contention now? Is it just to prove Mike a liar or does it serve some other purpose? Just curious.

--Stephan Picher.
Of course it is. What other purpose could it serve other than to show if he's lied about the vet then its likely he lied about everything else.

Still waiting on that vet report.....

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