Underground Reptiles Use Caution...

I see the same thing with African house snakes being sold, not just by Underground Reptiles, but by many others. Its frustrating to see animals you are passionate about being misrepresented. And it's equally difficult to determine whether the seller is merely ignorant of the matter. Sometimes, they are acutely aware of the difference and/or don't care.

On the flip side, people simply don't like being told they're wrong. From a business standpoint, I can somewhat understand that a complete stranger contacting them telling them one of their ads are wrong is not high priority (it should be, but sometimes they don't see it that way). The best thing is just be polite.

While perhaps not a "bad guy,' I see absolutely nothing wrong with spreading the word that the animals offered are not what they are advertised as. I do this with house snakes all the time. Is there a better location on Fauna where issues like this can be addressed or discussed?

I should also add that while my singular experience with Underground Reptiles was a decent one, I do not ever plan to do business with them again in the future. Not only do they have a history of misrepresenting some of the animals they sell, there are other business practices of theirs I do not agree with.

I do have to agree, however, that this bad guy thread is premature...considering this will always be on the BOI.

Originally Posted by KingBowser

I do have to agree, however, that this bad guy thread is premature...considering this will always be on the BOI.

But, that doesn't mean that this thread will have a negative impact on Underground Reptiles, it will just give him the chance to clear things up. And if people are trying to do research on Underground reptiles then they will either see him clear things up in this thread or see him shy away from it. So if he chooses to change his posting and then consult us here then I would not give him the label of a "bad guy", honsetly it is all in his hands now. But just because somebody posts a "bad guy" thread (especially if it is premature) doesn't mean that they don't have the chance to clear it up (if it is a situation that can be fixed) or have a true "bad guy" thread.

But anyway I just hope he comes to clear it up, I have talked to him several times about purchasing geckos and snakes from him and he seems very nice and helpful.

Underground Reptiles has been informed of this thread.

Ive only had one dealing with underground reptiles so far and there was a slight mixup with the sex ratio of animals that were shipped to me, 4.2 instead of 2.4, but i called them up and they were really willing to fix the problem shipping out some more females for a reduced price. It would be nice to see the BTS add corrected though. Everytime ive talked with them on the phone i must say they have been very professional and helpful. At least in my experience so far they dont really deserve a bad guy thread.

I'm sorry to see that such a simple mixup has turned into a matter in which it is now being incinuated that we are somehow unteachable or deceptive. Neither of which are true. While going through our emails I did not come across any such emails that you say were written. This does not mean they were not written but on occasion we have had certain emails put into the junk/spam mail folder for unknown reasons. We are also currently having trouble both receiving and sending mail to yahoo accounts. We are also checking into that problem. I am curious why you did not contact me via fauna or by phone if you did not get an email response, especially if you were concerned that we were doing something wrong or indecent. As I am sure many of you know we are also a breeder of blue tongue skinks and have been so sucessfully for many years. This particular pair came from an imported shipment and were labled as eastern blue tongues. This is a common practice when it comes to animals received from importers or jobbers. Many animals are misidentified. I would love you to give me a call James and kindly explain difference or markers that we can identify to avoid mislableing in the future or perhaps even pm me with this information. Also I feel it is important to remember that in this vast hobby many people have their niche or specialize in their understanding of specific animals and species. Rather than disuading others from working with people who make mistakes we should feel at liberty and happy to try and teach fellow hobbyists about the animals we are passionate about in kind and humble way. Remember you win more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. I will definitely have the gentlemen who posted the ad immediately amend it and I do apologize for the confusion. I hope in the future, as corny as this sounds, we can all work together to benefit our businesses and this hobby. I must say that I have learned and gain an immense amount of knowledge and help from other hobbyists on this forumn and have also been able to help others as well. Thank you.

Ryan Borkan

Originally Posted by UndergroundReptiles

I'm sorry to see that such a simple mixup has turned into a matter in which it is now being incinuated that we are somehow unteachable or deceptive. Neither of which are true. While going through our emails I did not come across any such emails that you say were written. This does not mean they were not written but on occasion we have had certain emails put into the junk/spam mail folder for unknown reasons. We are also currently having trouble both receiving and sending mail to yahoo accounts. We are also checking into that problem. I am curious why you did not contact me via fauna or by phone if you did not get an email response, especially if you were concerned that we were doing something wrong or indecent. As I am sure many of you know we are also a breeder of blue tongue skinks and have been so sucessfully for many years. This particular pair came from an imported shipment and were labled as eastern blue tongues. This is a common practice when it comes to animals received from importers or jobbers. Many animals are misidentified. I would love you to give me a call James and kindly explain difference or markers that we can identify to avoid mislableing in the future or perhaps even pm me with this information. Also I feel it is important to remember that in this vast hobby many people have their niche or specialize in their understanding of specific animals and species. Rather than disuading others from working with people who make mistakes we should feel at liberty and happy to try and teach fellow hobbyists about the animals we are passionate about in kind and humble way. Remember you win more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. I will definitely have the gentlemen who posted the ad immediately amend it and I do apologize for the confusion. I hope in the future, as corny as this sounds, we can all work together to benefit our businesses and this hobby. I must say that I have learned and gain an immense amount of knowledge and help from other hobbyists on this forumn and have also been able to help others as well. Thank you.

Ryan Borkan

Sounds understandable. I've sold on KS for a while and I've noticed yahoo does seem to send emails from there into my junk folder as well.

To the OP, did you ever think about calling them and talking to someone on the phone before trashing them with a bad guy thread? Did you think that maybe they had a busy weekend and didn't get a chance to look through their emails yet?

If the OP is using yahoo then I'd put money that it was filtered out... but then again, if I had a business, I wouldn't leave my junk email unchecked. Most of the BG threads lately seem to be stemming from communication errors, in age when we are at the peak of networking and communication, lol.

Originally Posted by UndergroundReptiles

I'm sorry to see that such a simple mixup has turned into a matter in which it is now being incinuated that we are somehow unteachable or deceptive. Neither of which are true. While going through our emails I did not come across any such emails that you say were written. This does not mean they were not written but on occasion we have had certain emails put into the junk/spam mail folder for unknown reasons. We are also currently having trouble both receiving and sending mail to yahoo accounts. We are also checking into that problem. I am curious why you did not contact me via fauna or by phone if you did not get an email response, especially if you were concerned that we were doing something wrong or indecent. As I am sure many of you know we are also a breeder of blue tongue skinks and have been so sucessfully for many years. This particular pair came from an imported shipment and were labled as eastern blue tongues. This is a common practice when it comes to animals received from importers or jobbers. Many animals are misidentified. I would love you to give me a call James and kindly explain difference or markers that we can identify to avoid mislableing in the future or perhaps even pm me with this information. Also I feel it is important to remember that in this vast hobby many people have their niche or specialize in their understanding of specific animals and species. Rather than disuading others from working with people who make mistakes we should feel at liberty and happy to try and teach fellow hobbyists about the animals we are passionate about in kind and humble way. Remember you win more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. I will definitely have the gentlemen who posted the ad immediately amend it and I do apologize for the confusion. I hope in the future, as corny as this sounds, we can all work together to benefit our businesses and this hobby. I must say that I have learned and gain an immense amount of knowledge and help from other hobbyists on this forumn and have also been able to help others as well. Thank you.

Ryan Borkan

Who is Ryan Borkan?
Rian Gittman is listed as the screen name Underground Reptiles...