A desert debate

Knowing the issues the females have...should people still breed male deserts to make combos?

Discuss.

Yes they should. Desert combos are wicked and the females are fine until bred. IF they were doomed from the start, simply from being born my opinion might be different, but seeing as how the females would be just fine if someone didn't try to breed them, I'd say you're not hurting anything by breeding the males. The problem only begins once someone tries to breed a female.
Now I'm sure there are going to be the people who still try and will essentially kill more helpless Desert females, but IMO, those are the same irresponsible people that will find something to mess up no matter what.

I'll personally never be into the Desert project because it just seems like a waste to me. I do NOT mean anything against the Desert combos, they are really, really nice but when I can only use the males, that's too much baggage for a single morph.

Personally I feel it is worse to breed the lethal combos we already know of. Lethal combos that assure a snakes death right from the start. BUT as soon as someone starts trying to breed a female Desert, I think they have become just as reckless. At this point in time, I think we should all have a pretty good idea of what will/could happen to the female. It's just not worth the risk IMO.

I agree with Amanda

that is basically saying that normals should all be sent packing. Tell them to hurry because pastel, spider, and granites are right behind. Mojaves and others should not get too comfortable. Normals are given away for free. Pastels are no more than $100 for females. Mojaves are $200 now.....just saw one for that SHIPPED!!!!! So none of those are worth anyone breeding because if we make one they are rubble and should be shunned to never slither again because they have no monetary value? Now look at every combo made with those and ask yourself, were those worth it? Some of the best morphs I have seen are desert combos. So maybe the question is "should only people who actually love ball pythons breed deserts?" I hatched a mojave desert female this season that I am keeping regardless if she every has a clutch because she is stunning. Now I am still optimistic that they may lay. I have had many conversations with many big people about this. With that said, and I trying to sell my females and tell people they will breed? No! I have put mine out for offers of trade or money, but not set a price. This post is not against the op or anyone, just making a broad statement. If your after money these are not for you. If you are a true hobbist and lover of what they make, who cares if they make infertile INCREDABLY STUNNING babies.

by the way, good topic Luke. Karma coming your way this evening when I can give some out again!

Originally Posted by Randy F

that is basically saying that normals should all be sent packing. Tell them to hurry because pastel, spider, and granites are right behind. Mojaves and others should not get too comfortable. Normals are given away for free. Pastels are no more than $100 for females. Mojaves are $200 now.....just saw one for that SHIPPED!!!!! So none of those are worth anyone breeding because if we make one they are rubble and should be shunned to never slither again because they have no monetary value? Now look at every combo made with those and ask yourself, were those worth it? Some of the best morphs I have seen are desert combos. So maybe the question is "should only people who actually love ball pythons breed deserts?" I hatched a mojave desert female this season that I am keeping regardless if she every has a clutch because she is stunning. Now I am still optimistic that they may lay. I have had many conversations with many big people about this. With that said, and I trying to sell my females and tell people they will breed? No! I have put mine out for offers of trade or money, but not set a price. This post is not against the op or anyone, just making a broad statement. If your after money these are not for you. If you are a true hobbist and lover of what they make, who cares if they make infertile INCREDABLY STUNNING babies.

by the way, good topic Luke. Karma coming your way this evening when I can give some out again!

I'm not sure if any of this was towards me lol, but I personally would never say any snake should be shunned. It doesn't have anything to do with monetary value (for me), it has to do with NOT killing any more Desert females. Do they all die? No. Have many of them died or had serious complications? Yes. <----- That is what I would like to avoid. I am a Ball Python breeder, so I want the males AND females I produce to be able to reproduce as well. I LOVE ball pythons, and I will never be breeding a Desert. I completely understand that many people will, and I will honestly enjoy looking at all the pictures, but anytime I see any Desert or combo and see "female" I will take a minute to say a prayer that no one ever tries to breed her. All the morphs we have available to us, I personally don't see the point.

I'll keep all the Mojo's, Pastel's, and even Normals I can get. Those females reproduce and if I happen to produce them myself, I know that the female's I sell shouldn't die if and when someone happens to breed any of them.

This is a two part question though and I can totally understand someone still breeding the males. The combos are some of the best and the males do just fine. So breeding the males? Sure, I just worry what will end up of those females.

Definitely a good discussion.

Originally Posted by Randy F

that is basically saying that normals should all be sent packing. Tell them to hurry because pastel, spider, and granites are right behind. Mojaves and others should not get too comfortable. Normals are given away for free. Pastels are no more than $100 for females. Mojaves are $200 now.....just saw one for that SHIPPED!!!!! So none of those are worth anyone breeding because if we make one they are rubble and should be shunned to never slither again because they have no monetary value? Now look at every combo made with those and ask yourself, were those worth it? Some of the best morphs I have seen are desert combos. So maybe the question is "should only people who actually love ball pythons breed deserts?" I hatched a mojave desert female this season that I am keeping regardless if she every has a clutch because she is stunning. Now I am still optimistic that they may lay. I have had many conversations with many big people about this. With that said, and I trying to sell my females and tell people they will breed? No! I have put mine out for offers of trade or money, but not set a price. This post is not against the op or anyone, just making a broad statement. If your after money these are not for you. If you are a true hobbist and lover of what they make, who cares if they make infertile INCREDABLY STUNNING babies.

by the way, good topic Luke. Karma coming your way this evening when I can give some out again!

Those are toliet bottom prices not rock botton LOL.... the quailty has to be horrible.. But on deserts I want one and so does my partner I wouldnt breed a female tho JMO I use to breed dogs if I had a female that had issues birthing I would spay her and sell to a good pet home at a pet price... which I feel is the right thing to do why stress the animal and yourself out..As breeders we should want the best for our animals, I believe an animal with a defect is still a animal that should be love and taking care of.. As a breeder I love all my animals but as a business man can I have 3-7 female desert no I cannot...

Thank god I can get into Desert Ghost. Not interested in Deserts in the faintest bit.

Regards,

B

Personally I would not buy or breed a desert male

Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Personally I would not buy or breed a desert male

Jerry, I am just curious...is it because of the business standpoint you would not?

I got to thinking after my first two posts, and I think monetary does have something to do with it for me. If I was "just" a hobbyist I could understand a bit more, but I still think even those who claim to be just hobbyist eventually sell some things. So monetary does play a role as well. ROI always plays a role I guess.

Originally Posted by Kingofspades

Knowing the issues the females have...should people still breed male deserts to make combos?

Discuss.

Sure, if they like the gene. However, I believe it's just a matter of time before the female issue drives male and combo prices into the crapper. The single gene desert males went from $4k to $1k in no time flat.

Originally Posted by Breaking Balls

Thank god I can get into Desert Ghost. Not interested in Deserts in the faintest bit.

Regards,

B

^ This. The prices on desert ghost are holding steady, and we've barely seen the tip of the iceberg as far as their potential.

I'd love to have a desert pin female as a pet though.