NERD supports Voids and plays with them

Originally Posted by crazycorn

Prove it to me I am wrong and I will ADMIT I am wrong.

Lol...

You still do not get it. There is a very important lesson to be learned here. When you make accusations about people it is YOUR responsibility to prove your own accusations to be true. Not ours.

Anyway, after seeing Kara's post I hope this lesson sank in a little bit. This thread should never have been started.


Paul Sage,

Sorry dude but at 16 he is more than old enough to know better. My 10 year old knows better. It seems to me that he thought he had a sure fire hot topic and could not wait to see the fireworks start. Only it blew up in his face.

Lesson learned I hope.

So wait, there's no concern at all over kids free handling voids in the hot forum? At all? Wow.

(And by the way, just in advance, thanks to anyone who gives me negative reputation points for raising a SAFETY concern about a well known breeder.) *rolls eyes*

Originally Posted by shrap

Paul Sage,

Sorry dude but at 16 he is more than old enough to know better. My 10 year old knows better. It seems to me that he thought he had a sure fire hot topic and could not wait to see the fireworks start. Only it blew up in his face.

You're right Sammy. I see that now. At first when I saw "crazycorn" I was thinking of "corncrazy" who is someone I had a very pleasant transaction with. I thought that he was maybe their kid or something, so I was a little biased when I posted about granting him some leniency.

He has certainly dug himself a hole here, and when you light fireworks off inside a pit, they're bound to "blow up in his face". Some people just want to make waves, and then sit back and hope the tsunami that results doesn't flood their way. Lol... so now he's lighting fireworks off inside a flooded hole that he dug himself! Don't you just love expressions?

Wow. What message does it send a child when he or she sees it is ok to touch a gaboon viper, or have their picture taken with a cobra or whatever it was.

Gary is right, if one of those animals bit someone, first of all it's going to hurt like hell (think long fangs), second of all what if the media gets ahold of it?

I don't think the young man that brought this here should be the one being scrutinized here, it is NERD that should be. What the hell were they thinking?

One doesn't need to use venomoids to educate folks that snakes aren't yucky/scary/horrible animals at an event such as the one that took place. Pleanty of other non venomous snakes can achieve the same thing.

Sounds like some are rescues and some NERD actually purchased from someone. Either way. My advice to them is: don't go playing with your venomous/venomoids is public like that. That's wrong and at least one person at NERD knows that damn well. Perhaps that person can talk some sense into the other people (person) at NERD and this won't happen anymore. No offense meant to anyone, this is just how I see it. Maybe I am wrong and it is ok, I dunno.

OK, back to my hellish existance again. Just had to post something on this one though. Couldn't believe the tongue lashing the originator of the thread was getting, sheesh.

Originally Posted by sirenofthestorm

So wait, there's no concern at all over kids free handling voids in the hot forum? At all? Wow.

(And by the way, just in advance, thanks to anyone who gives me negative reputation points for raising a SAFETY concern about a well known breeder.) *rolls eyes*

I think there is a great deal of concern. The issue thus far had to deal with the way the thread was presented without any facts.

NERD has posted that it could have been done in a better manner and I agree with that whole-heartily. I am personally opposed to Voids and I agree with much of Gary’s post that they should be handled in the same way as hots.

And LOL, Your not accusing someone of something and telling people to go find the proof on their own. So, I would not worry about the rep. point thing.

As I said earlier, I am indeed disturbed by the pictures. And I agree with a lot of what Gary said. But honestly, that is the tip of a very large iceberg. How may times have people seen powerful constrictors being carried at reptile shows wrapped around the neck of some moronic show off? I personally know of someone who used to hold his snakes like that all the time during cage maintenance. That is until a previously docile (I hate to use the word "tame" to describe a wild animal) 5 foot carpet python decided to wrap his neck. He was unable to remove the snake before he started to "see stars" (as you know, compression of the carotid arteries will cause unconsciousness long before compression of the trachea). Fortunately his wife was in the next room and heard the struggle and was able to safely remove the constrictor from his neck and save his life. Had she not been there he likely would have been front page news -- MAN KILLED BY PET PYTHON.

I keep scrub pythons. They are rather powerful constrictors with rather large teeth and a potent bite. I know of people who use their so-called "tame" scrubs for classroom demonstartions and let children "pet" them. These animals respond to smell, heat, and motion. Imagine some little kid that had been playing with his or her pet rodent or rabbit before school approaching that snake and receiving a strike. Imagine those headlines -- GIRL BIT ON FACE BY DANGEROUS PYTHON IN SCHOOL DEMO.

I guess my point is that we all need to be a bit more careful perhaps as to what we take for granted here. The person who gets wrapped by a 5 foot carpet or ball python will in fact be dead long before the person who receives a bite from a hot "void".

Honestly, I think the pics speak for themselves. The question that pops into my head just by looking at the pics is "Wow, those are either hots or voids. And is either one really appropriate in that situation?"

Now yes, this thread should have a different TITLE, but a poor choice of words should not have overshadowed the content of the thread. How a bunch of self respecting adults let that little nugget slip by them for 8 pages is beyond me. I'm sorry guys, this is not debate school, this is a board for a hobby that gets more bad press than good press, and arguing about the semantics of how an argument was made is kinda bypassing the core issue IMO.

Originally Posted by sirenofthestorm

Honestly, I think the pics speak for themselves. The question that pops into my head just by looking at the pics is "Wow, those are either hots or voids. And is either one really appropriate in that situation?"

Now yes, this thread should have a different TITLE, but a poor choice of words should not have overshadowed the content of the thread. How a bunch of self respecting adults let that little nugget slip by them for 8 pages is beyond me. I'm sorry guys, this is not debate school, this is a board for a hobby that gets more bad press than good press, and arguing about the semantics of how an argument was made is kinda bypassing the core issue IMO.

Actually they do not "speak for themselves". Like I said earlier, I was somewhat disturbed by the content, but without context they are only pictures of people handling venomoids, some of whom are wearing NERD t-shirts. That is until Kara confirmed that it was a NERD event. Those t-shirts are available for sale to the general public.

If you like you can use your control panel here to set your pages to 40 posts each. Then this is only two pages.

can you tell that they are venemoids by looking at them in the pictures?
Couldn't someone see the pics and assume that all of the snakes are venemous?

Am I really the only one who recognizes Kevin from other pics as among the freehandlers? And since it was a NERD event, I assume that NERD staff was on hand to take out the animals and showcase them. Either that's the case, or they just put the animals out and let the crowd take them out and handle them. I know in the dozens of presentations I've given, even if I let someone from the general population handle a african fat tailed gecko, I watch that animal like a hawk and know what is going on with it at all times. Larger boids or anything prone to biting is under control by myself or someone I trust at all times. Its simply amazing to me that someone in this hobby would let someone they don't know freehandle a venomoid or a hot. Now either these people in the pictures are strangers, or they're not.

If a NERD representative would like to clarify as to whether everyone within striking distance of those voids were qualified hot handlers, that is they all had or were on their way to 1000 hours of apprenticeship working with hots, I for one would appreciate it.