LLLReptile should be closed down (BuyerBeware)

If I decide to go get a dozen x-rays done on a snake I buy just to be safe, should I contact the person I bought it from and send them the bill? Is that fair do you think?

Originally Posted by sidewinder107

I agree the test was to rule out a broken jaw. But also look at it from my point a lot of people in here has flamed me there is very few normal reply's in here.People are even telling me the vet is no good.And they don't even know the story they are guessing. So lets get that squared away. I drove 2 hours to them.You see that snakes bottom jaw that's split. My first thought was a broken jaw. He told me he had mouth rot before that radiograph. I drove 2 hours just for that radiograph of that snakes mouth? I feel I did the right thing and I would do it all over again. I put this on here to show what I was dealing with from them and how far I should push this considering the condition of the snake I was sent. At first I was bashed pretty hard. And everyone keeps bringing up that I wanted them to pay the vet bills. Yes I did give that option I would be satisfied with, but I also made them 2 more offers besides that option in the same email. And they was not interested in what I had to offer only what they where offering. And yes I agree again on the no cash back, its in their policy plain as day. Just because I made a offer goes not mean I am going to get it. I am not stupid but since when is it a crime to suggest a offer I would be satisfied with. That contract was broke on both side's when they shipped the snake like that. I have bought snakes from some of the biggest names in the business and I would never bash them like this cause I would not have to. They would not send out a animal like that to begin with and I would not have to ask them to make it right most of the people I know would make it right. Bolivian Amarali are pretty hard to find only few are breeding them. I have been looking for months for a male all the big guys seem to have none available.That is the only reason I bought it. Other wise I would have went somewhere else to make this purchase. And stick to small supply's from lllreptile, for I know their reputation. But in my own opinion if they are going to send out animal's like this maybe they do need to be closed down on animal sales. And I will say it again, I have had no problems on anything else. Matter of fact they are very fast shippers with decent prices and good communication as you can see. But when does that over ride how their animals are treated. They might deal with thousands of orders, but how many of those orders are animals. Maybe if they spent a little less time on you tube and face book they could spend a little more time looking over their animals before they ship.

I do understand your point of view. You felt let down by the company, you brought it to the BOI, and people didn't agree with you. Replies tend to come quickly here, so I can understand how overwhelming it must be to have so many people argue against you when you are already stressed out from dealing with a sick animal.

Do not lump everyone on the BOI in with each other or LLL Reptile. Each person here is an individual, and while it sometimes feels like you are being "ganged up on", everyone is posting their own two cents, not reinforcing a decision made as a collective. If you spend enough time here, you'll see people give similar opinions in one thread while they are strongly arguing different opinions in another thread.

I'm not judging you for getting the radiograph. If I were uncomfortable determining an animal's health, I'd get one done as well. I think it's great that you chose to take a closer look rather than risk the snake being untreated for a missed injury. What my point is, is that LLL Reptile should not be expected to pay for that test because nothing came of it. It's not a matter of whether or not you were unreasonable in asking for the test. The issue is that because LLL Reptile was not there at your vet's office, they cannot determine how much it looked like a broken jaw to require a radiograph. YOUR vet wasn't sure enough to make a call without the test. THEIR vets may have been able to, because they presumably see reptiles day in and day out. On the other hand, maybe their vets would have done the same thing yours did. We don't know, since you still have the snake. If you got into a fender bender, and offered to pay for the other person to get their car fixed, you'd be pretty upset if they took it to a shop that insisted they get expensive work done that they didn't really need, right? I'm not saying that is the case with you, I'm just saying that LLL Reptile can never be sure, because they were not there. So for situations like that, which require a degree of trust, they are compromising to say, "whatever damage we caused this animal, we will compensate you for." The radiograph did not indicate damage, so it doesn't count. That policy works for many breeders and sellers, because it allows them to make things right for customers while it protects them from being taken advantage of (over-the-top example: "my snake made a hissing noise so I got three opinions and twelve cultures done and now I have a $1500 bill for you!")

If we put everything else to the side - the other options that were brought up, how people feel about the options offered, etc. - if we ONLY focus on LLL Reptile's offer of $199 + mite treatment, does that offer work for you? In my opinion, it fits your criteria. I am not posting here to pass judgement on either you or LLL. I'm here to help resolve the issue. If that offer for $200 + mite treatment works for you, and it works for them, then it doesn't matter what the other offers on the table were, or whether or not everyone on the BOI understands what happened or agrees with your feelings. Don't accept the offer if you're not comfortable with it, of course, but if you are, I think you'll be happier in the long run if you take them up on it, put this thread to bed, and invest your time and attention in taking care of your boa. This thread is just going to be one more thing for you to worry about if it keeps dragging on, you know?

I wish your boa a speedy recovery, and I hope you'll share some pictures of him once he's feeling better!

Originally Posted by sidewinder107

So lets get that squared away. I drove 2 hours to them.You see that snakes bottom jaw that's split. My first thought was a broken jaw. He told me he had mouth rot before that radiograph. I drove 2 hours just for that radiograph of that snakes mouth?

Oh god I am a sucker for pain, here it goes.

Why?

Why did you drive 2 hours to get to a vet when you could have took to locally?


Looking at the map, you got at least 5 vets that deal with reptiles with in 20 miles of blairsville.

They even have a doctor that actually treated zoo animals. Don't tell me they scorn you too?

Mr. Henderson,

How does one start a topic here with the lead in stating that a company that has been around for many years "should be closed down" and not make that post a "Bad Guy" post but instead choose to make it an "Info" post? After all, you had to scroll past the " Bad Guy" option to get to the "Info" option. Could it be that you are so unconvinced by your own arguments here that maybe subconciously not even you can bring yourself to believe there is a bad guy involved here. Well, other than the seemingly growing opinion that you yourself are the bad guy. Of course one has to consider that this "Info" post is just one of the ever so popular precursor posts which would lead to a "Bad Guy" post if one were not to get ones way.

Here's an idea that may help you go away. Take the credit, sell the credit. I believe you have made a comment along the line of "it's not the money" or something which insinuated that this is not about the $. I apologize if I am wrong but there is absolutely no way I am subjecting myself to having to read another word from you unless absolutely necessary.

If that is the case, and if you have trouble finding a taker for the credit at face value, maybe you would consider offering a 10% discount. There is always someone in the industry looking for an opportunity for a discounted price. Of course LLLReptile would have to agree to the transfer of said credit but something tells me they may just bend a rule in this case. Better hurry though. You should try to make this happen before they get "closed down".

Originally Posted by MCMB-2

Actually I do know the story. You can easily tell if a snake has a broken jaw just by propping open the mouth and examining the bone structure. If your vet had to take an x-ray to decide it wasn't broken then they aren't a very good reptile vet. End of story.

Actually this isn't really a valid point. Yes the presence of the fracture could be determined without an x-ray but the extent of the fracture and whether or not its showing signs that the bone is infected to a greater extent than can be determined via a visual inspection. A visual inspection would also miss as to whether or not the infection originated deeper in the tissues (as people often forget or don't realize that abscesses in the face/head of a snake often drain into the mouth) as the minor appearance of infection in the mouth could be indicative of a bigger problem.
In this case the recommendation of an x-ray would be considered a part of a conservative assessment and not a sign of a "bad vet".

The offer by the store is fair but if there were a lot of mites on the snake, I would have been pissed about them shipping it without checking with me as it would be an overt sign of a problem with the snake.

Originally Posted by EdwardK

Actually this isn't really a valid point. Yes the presence of the fracture could be determined without an x-ray but the extent of the fracture and whether or not its showing signs that the bone is infected to a greater extent than can be determined via a visual inspection. A visual inspection would also miss as to whether or not the infection originated deeper in the tissues (as people often forget or don't realize that abscesses in the face/head of a snake often drain into the mouth) as the minor appearance of infection in the mouth could be indicative of a bigger problem.
In this case the recommendation of an x-ray would be considered a part of a conservative assessment and not a sign of a "bad vet".

If you're agreeing that a visual examination is sufficient to determine if a fracture is present but that an x-ray can determine how severe the fracture is, why would an x-ray be necessary if it was determined visually that there was no fracture to begin with? If the vet was competent enough to notice through normal examination that there was no fracture, why would an honest vet still recommend an x-ray?

I think part of your argument is that they're just being safe, but if that's the case they could have done blood tests too and ran the bill up over a grand. Either way, it's not the seller's responsibility to cover those costs.

Originally Posted by MCMB-2

If you're agreeing that a visual examination is sufficient to determine if a fracture is present but that an x-ray can determine how severe the fracture is, why would an x-ray be necessary if it was determined visually that there was no fracture to begin with? If the vet was competent enough to notice through normal examination that there was no fracture, why would an honest vet still recommend an x-ray?

So a simple visual inspection that there is a fracture tells you the extent of it? If you broke your arm in three places close together could you tell that was broken in three places via a visual inspection? What if the middle break was actually fragmented? This cannot be seen via a visual inspection (and possibly not with a palpation due to swelling etc) but directly affects the required treatment as it would require a more invasive treatment response.
This is why an x-ray recommendation would be a conservative treatment and is not the sign of a bad vet.

Whether or not my arm is broken in one place or a million, I can tell with visual inspection that it's broken lol. The x-ray is to determine how badly, this is what we're both saying. If my arm looks perfectly fine and doesn't appear to be broken as determined by an experienced doctor, why would an x-ray be necessary?

In this case there was no fracture at all, so why would an x-ray be necessary? The determine how badly it WASN'T fractured? I don't understand what you're getting at lol.