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Old 08-18-2005, 12:40 AM   #1
gothra
Feeding silkworm moths?

My silkworm colony is doing well, now I have about 20 moths; 2 of them had problems eclosing, so I helped them out. Their wings are deformed so I was wondering if I could feed these to my leos. They are both male moths, so no eggs for impaction risks; but I think they're not very nutritious plus they have lots of hair. Do you think I should try it?
 
Old 08-18-2005, 05:35 AM   #2
DiabloBoa
you know the package that some butterworms (or were they goliath? big green ones.) were in stated that many reptiles will eat the moths that emerge and those things have like a 3-4inch wingspan so i cant see why not.
 
Old 08-18-2005, 09:44 AM   #3
1derfool
I do it quite often. Check my post Silkmoths for Leos - complete with pictures of some moths meeting their fate.
 
Old 08-20-2005, 08:53 PM   #4
groovygeckos
Do either of you have a link or any tips on keeping the cocoons or the moths ? How can they be sexed ? How many moths would i need ?

Just received some silks and there are 2 cocoons and another one spinning itself inside of one . Figure i may try to hatch some out . Also would be fun to see my Leos eat the moths if i dont so i want to make sure they emerge !
 
Old 08-20-2005, 11:48 PM   #5
Reptileking636
how difficult are silkworms to keep? I've never tried them, but i think it would be a pretty decent way to get feeders.
 
Old 08-20-2005, 11:57 PM   #6
gothra
Quote:
Originally Posted by groovygeckos
Do either of you have a link or any tips on keeping the cocoons or the moths ? How can they be sexed ? How many moths would i need ?
1 male moth and 1 female moth will give you ~300 eggs; I can give you some stats of my first attempt; I have 120 silks to start with:

- 9 of those died from unsuccessful spinning (including cocoons that are translucent).
- I helped a dozen of them out from their cocoon, somehow they got entangled in their own silk and can't get out.
- I got way more females than males; almost 3-4 female to 1 male.
- so far, I have 6 sets of fertile eggs and 1 set that's not fertile; lots more waiting to see.

To be safe I think 15-20 silks will at least get you a pair; unless you have real bad luck and get all 20 females or males...

Sexing the moths are easy; females have much larger body than males, if you've got a male and there is a female near by, the male moth will go crazy and their hind ends will join together almost immediately.

This thread has tons of info on rearing silkworms (after the first few replies), its very long (15 pages and still growing), I hightly recommend it:
http://www.reptilerooms.com/forumtopic-5131.html
 
Old 08-21-2005, 10:07 AM   #7
1derfool
I used to get a lot of 'runty' moths but I think I've figured it out. Once I stopped moving the cocoons, the moths hatched out perfectly formed. The cocoons are attached to a surface and should stay there, no moving or changing orientation. In the wild the cocoon would stay put where it was attached, so that makes sense. I'm guessing the pupa is fragile and can get damaged easily if flipped around? It also seems more deformed ones hatch in winter, making me think the lower humidity affects them. Since I've started keeping the container covered with paper towel and adding a moist cotton ball for humidity, that problem has almost disappeared.

When I notice some of the full grown worms starting to leave the pack and not eat, I put them into sections of paper towel tube (or toilet paper tube) cut to about 3", slightly flattened. The rolls are kept in a lizard ranch type kritter keeper. Stuff a worm in and let him get down to business. Sometimes they wander around looking for a different tube but eventually they do start spinning. I've even had two share a tube, no problems. Depending on the ambient temperature, it can take as little as 2 weeks for the moths to emerge but it has taken as long as 6 weeks.
Moths only live to mate, this CB strain was bred for silk production at the expense of flying ability, they try like crazy to fly but can't. One a pair starts mating, it can take a day or longer for them to finish, they're oblivious to anything else. I move the pair to a delicup where they stay until done, the female lays her eggs in there. If the male still shows signs of life and I need another one, I'll try to pair him up with a female though I find that the fertility rate of those eggs isn't as good. Usually I don't mate him twice if I can help it. Once the moths are done their respective jobs they get fed to the leos as treats. I do find there are more females than males but not too big a discrepancy, usually 2:1.

There's a PDF file online someplace about the problems with silkworm raising as related to the silk industry. It mentions the translucent cocoons as being a problem with diet. I've noticed more translucent ones in winter when I can only feed the chow, the summer worms get mostly real mulberry leaves and there are hardly any translucent cocoons. If I can find the file again, I'll post a link for anyone who wants to read it. That same file has a recipe for making your own chow but it sounds like a pain. It's also geared to silk production, not worms as food so I'm not going to try the recipe myself, some of those ingredients don't sound healthy for a leo even though they might not kill the silkworm itself.





It might not be an 'official' sexing method, but I find the females have a more intricate pattern on their wings. You can see it fairly well in the picture above. Male wings are fairly simple, females have a few extra 'lines' crossing the wings.
 
Old 08-21-2005, 08:50 PM   #8
groovygeckos
Kool , Thanks Bonnie & Hilde.
 
Old 08-21-2005, 10:00 PM   #9
MorphTiles
interesting info! I have a ton of silks hatching out right now!
 

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