Dragons Den Herp (INFO)

...it is very difficult to get a photograph showing true representation of color without changing exposure or adding/subtracting contrast. When I post a picture of a dragon, I often have to add contrast and darken the exposure to make the dragon appear the way it looks in person.
...let me say this regarding photos and color: I often add contrast to, or change the brightness of, pictures that I post of my bearded dragons. I NEVER do this to mislead people, or misrepresent an animal. I only do this to compensate for the bright sunlight and to make the picture show true representation of the dragon at that time.

With all due respect, that makes no sense. Natural sunlight is the best for taking photos. If you keep your dragons outside, as you said, then they should be nice and warm, colored up, and appear the same to a camera lens as they would "in person". (Uh ... you are there "in person" taking an image of a subject "in person"). It is when you photograph indoors, under fluorescent lights, using a flash, or in a darkened room, that photos appear washed out, faded or inordinately bright and editing can be necessary.
There is only one reason to screw around with contrast. And whether you intend to or not, it IS misrepresenting ... you are altering the photograph to enhance color. Period.

Regardless of your explanation, even more interesting is the disclaimer from your site ... you even state you will not guarantee against misrepresentation of color, even while fully acknowledging here you alter the contrast in your photos!

... our guarantee does not apply to color. We believe that we produce some of the finest color morphs of dragons and geckos available, and we will do our best to provide our customers with the colors they request, but we will not offer refunds due to lack or misinterpretation of color.

Just for comparison, here are a couple photos I took myself. Outdoors. In bright summer sunlight. Completely and totally unretouched. And without a fancy complicated camera. The reds are red, the greens are green. No misrepresentation. And no, I don't photograph for a living. Perhaps it's time for a new camera. The one I use cost less than what the OP paid for the dragon.

~ Laura Bolt

Originally Posted by LauraB

Regardless of your explanation, even more interesting is the disclaimer from your site ... you even state you will not guarantee against misrepresentation of color, even while fully acknowledging here you alter the contrast in your photos!



~ Laura Bolt

Originally Posted by LauraB

... our guarantee does not apply to color. We believe that we produce some of the finest color morphs of dragons and geckos available, and we will do our best to provide our customers with the colors they request, but we will not offer refunds due to lack or misinterpretation of color.

I think there is a difference between the two...........

Jim

JimD ... you are absolutely correct. I totally misread the guarantee/disclaimer. My apologies to Kevin ... and now headed out to get my eyes checked along with a swift kick to the arse. So sorry.

~ Laura Bolt

I'd hate to rain on someone's parade.. but I purchased some dragons from Kevin a while back. Three to be exact, 1.1 bloods, and a 1.0 Sandfire. These are the following photos of the two males. The female was a last minute addition to the order, so there is no photo of her. Ok, well I had asked him for some of the best colored B grade dragons he had. (I dont mind, stub tails nor missing toes, aslong as the color is exceptional, these would be breeders anyways), he said he had a few and would pick out some smokers. Sure enough I got these..




I paid a fair amount of money for these three lizards. He was nice enough to work with me, and give me time to pay them off.

So back to the story, they came in..
I opened the package from Kevin and I looked at my babies... well the male was a tad dark, and bit grumpy. No biggie, the female was "brown" and the sandfire male was more of a pastel tangy orange color. Not a bright flourscent Orange as I had seen in the pictures.

Will to make a long story short, the male did turn up being one of the brightest red dragons I have come to acquire. NOT saturated red like some other lineages, but RED none the less. Unfortunately the male died bout a month and half later. Necropsy stated it was due to "bad liver" I'll get the actual wording to post. I did email Kevin, but I didn't state: "I want a refund, you sold me crap, etc.." no I was at fault some how, and I just wanted to let him know that it died. Plus, I wouldn't want to be held responsible neither for someone else negligence. So anyhow... the "brown" female is now turning up with more red, and yellow coloration than before. She is coloring up nicely. The male sandfire... is still a pastel/washed out orange sort of say. I do keep these guys outside on a daily basis. They have outdoor bins that I have setup, so they have full exposure to UVB and UVA rays. So to make a long story short, and to get this over with, I havent really had any problems with the representation of his dragons, I've been happy soo far. And to add, temperature, lighting conditions, and the dragons mood all adds to the result of how the lizard looks.

Here is the Sandfire male "pastel orange" that I got from Kevin, and this is with my camera.


Also pictures of the same lizard under different lighting conditions, the same beardie just woken up, fired up, etc.. etc.. So it does vary alot (he's actually alot more orange around the outside of his body, and yellow down the middle etc.

Raul, they are definitely nice Beardies, but wow....that orange male looks NOTHING like the picture provided to you! If the pics are only altered to show what the dragons "actually look like in person"....I don't understand why they do not look like that.

And I'm curious also, if the one male died only a month or so after you received it from a bad liver, what did you do that makes you so certain that you were the cause? The other animals you picture look like you have taken fine care of them.

Originally Posted by SouthernDragons

I'd hate to rain on someone's parade.. but I purchased some dragons from Kevin a while back. Three to be exact, 1.1 bloods, and a 1.0 Sandfire. These are the following photos of the two males. The female was a last minute addition to the order, so there is no photo of her. Ok, well I had asked him for some of the best colored B grade dragons he had. (I dont mind, stub tails nor missing toes, aslong as the color is exceptional, these would be breeders anyways), he said he had a few and would pick out some smokers. Sure enough I got these..




I paid a fair amount of money for these three lizards. He was nice enough to work with me, and give me time to pay them off.

So back to the story, they came in..
I opened the package from Kevin and I looked at my babies... well the male was a tad dark, and bit grumpy. No biggie, the female was "brown" and the sandfire male was more of a pastel tangy orange color. Not a bright flourscent Orange as I had seen in the pictures.

Will to make a long story short, the male did turn up being one of the brightest red dragons I have come to acquire. NOT saturated red like some other lineages, but RED none the less. Unfortunately the male died bout a month and half later. Necropsy stated it was due to "bad liver" I'll get the actual wording to post. I did email Kevin, but I didn't state: "I want a refund, you sold me crap, etc.." no I was at fault some how, and I just wanted to let him know that it died. Plus, I wouldn't want to be held responsible neither for someone else negligence. So anyhow... the "brown" female is now turning up with more red, and yellow coloration than before. She is coloring up nicely. The male sandfire... is still a pastel/washed out orange sort of say. I do keep these guys outside on a daily basis. They have outdoor bins that I have setup, so they have full exposure to UVB and UVA rays. So to make a long story short, and to get this over with, I havent really had any problems with the representation of his dragons, I've been happy soo far. And to add, temperature, lighting conditions, and the dragons mood all adds to the result of how the lizard looks.

Here is the Sandfire male "pastel orange" that I got from Kevin, and this is with my camera.


Also pictures of the same lizard under different lighting conditions, the same beardie just woken up, fired up, etc.. etc.. So it does vary alot (he's actually alot more orange around the outside of his body, and yellow down the middle etc.

I still think that the seller is wrong in regards to doctoring photo's to make the animals amazingly bright. So far, i don't see any of your animals showing much of a resemblance to those in the pics from the seller. I know that beardies change colour depending on mood etc. but have you seen yours turn as bright as the ones in the sellers photographs?

Laura- No apologies needed.

Christopher- I told you I would gladly take your dragon back and give you a full refund. I know the color it showed here, and I would be happy to keep him as a breeder.

Raul- If you would have explained the circumstances, I would have offered to replace your dragon that died...call me to discuss it.

I have been breeding Bearded Dragons for 13-14 years and I have thousands of happy customers throughout the world. I have never tried to rip-off anybody, or misrepresent an animal. If I change a picture, it is only to make it look as it looks in person. Part of the reason I do this is to show the person who buys it, if husbandry requirements are met, how the dragon should look. It is very difficult to show accurate color representation, in bright sunlight, with a digital camera (at least if I am the one taking the picture). The pictures you posted look great. I don't know if you have a very good camera, are a good photographer, or are just better at taking pictures than I am, but I wish I could get my pictures to show the reds like they do in the pics you posted. I would welcome you to come by the ranch and see for yourself how colorful our dragons are (when they are hot) and how dull they are (when they are cool). I have a photographer coming today or tomorrow to take some pictures of dragons and I will have him take a pic of the red one that is posted earlier in this forum, next to a color board, so everyone can see how it really does look. If I can figure out how to put pics in my posts, I will put them up here. Again, I have never tried to rip-off anybody. In fact, if somebody tells me that their dragon died, or is not doing well, usually offer to send another (without even asking for the original dragon to be returned)...
Kevin
Kevin Dunne

Originally Posted by snake5007

I still think that the seller is wrong in regards to doctoring photo's to make the animals amazingly bright.

Just throwing this out there...I'm not a professional photographer, or even an amateur one for that matter, but color balance and white balance in digital photography are very complicated subject areas. Pretty much all photos need some correction to resemble what the eye sees. Some cameras do a decent job of auto-correcting in a range of lighting. Most do not. Some cameras have a variety of presets to set correction for particular kinds of light. Older cameras might not.

I have never taken a picture of my albino hondurans that looked anything like them without color correction in any light, and with any camera settings (and I've tried them all).

All that is to say that just because a photo is adjusted, does not mean it's fraudulent or dishonest. In the end, it's an issue of trust. If you trust a breeder to represent his or her animals fairly, great. If not, you might want to see them in person first.

I have gotten two sandfires and close to thirty crested geckos from kevin. I will continue to do business with him, and if anyone is asking hes a good guy!!!