BEWARE OF PIJAC!!!!

Originally Posted by Jerry_c_62

I agree with Rich totally on this point. If the government really wanted to protect people they would outlaw cigarettes. BUT NOOOOOOO they will not give up the revenue from the taxes even though people will die because of it. Granted these people made a choice and have to live with it (no pun intended). The government could save thousands by outlawing smokes. I wonder why, when they are SOOOOO interested in what is good for you and me, they don't?

Well at least the present occupant at 1600 Pennsylvania steps out to the back yard for a heater, so all the smokers won't have to worry about that for at least the next 3+ years or so.

I have to disagree a little on the drug/cig issue... well, I'm all against banning things that only cause self-harm. Let people do what they will as long as they're informed.
The trouble comes when those people go to the ER, etc with their smoking problems. They become a burden, bla bla bla... taxes CAN be used to "internalize an externality" and force people to pay the real cost of their actions.
Not saying that's what the government actually IS doing, I imagine it's seldom so efficient, but in theory I actually LIKE the idea of taxing things that are (self) harmful instead of banning them, and using the money to educate people/support rehab programs/whatever.

i will interject with one statement.

god gives rights to the people than the people loan those rights to the gov. the gov has been over stepping and flat out taking those rights from the very people they are supposed to be protecting.

i will oppose any bill/law that takes away my right to keep what i want, be it a fully auto ak 47, or a 15 ft scrub python.

the gov interjecting and givings us laws/regulations is not a forgon conclusion we still have the right to oppose such.

I hate wading into politics, but here goes. First, PJAC has been defending the rights for pet ownership for 40 years. They have done a damn good job too. Things would be pretty bleak without the hard work Marshall and others have put into ensuring our rights to keep animals. Also, PJAC is a lot more then reptiles and amphibians. They look out for all pet owners and businesses related to pet ownership. Keep in mind that for the most part PJAC is a political machine all in itself. They know how to compromise, and they know how to navigate capital hill. Let's let them do what they do best, but at the same time, let's make sure that WE are not being compromises. Remember, they are dealing with the whole industry, and herps still make up a very small percentage of that industry.

I'm no expert, but I have changed a lot of local laws both in my state, county, and city. Bad ordinances can be defeated before they are made into law. HR669 is now being re-written. It will hit the sub committee again soon. It is up to us to fight it. The best compromise for us is to make sure this bill does not pass. If we stop it again in the sub committee it will more then likely not come up again for another year. If it passes the sub committee, and I think it will, it then has to go to the full committee. We need to stop it there. We don't want it to hit the floor of the house. Republicans are all pretty much on our side. So we need to concentrate on the Democrats. They are the ones that will push this bill, and they are the ones we need to connect with. They control Congress, so we have to let them know how we feel. I've already contacted all my state reps to both the House and Senate, and will do so again if this bill looks like it's going to reach the House floor. If it passes the House, the Senate will have to come up with a similar plan, and then the House and Senate has to compromise on the Bill for a full vote by both. So we can still stop it in the Senate if it gets that far. Of course we can also bombard the President if it passes, and demand he veto the bill. He might if we can prove the economic hardship this bill will cause. We can prove that, besides some locality issues, that invasive reptiles and ampibians pose no ecological or economic impact on the United States except Guam, Florida, and a few other sub tropical sites. Let those areas deal with invasive species issues as they see fit. There is no need to make this a national issue

Bottom line, fight for our rights. No compromise, no surrender. PJAC will help, but we have to fight to save ourselves. No one else is going to come to our aid. We are a small group. But we can make a lot of noise. Let's be the squeaky wheel. If this bill passes and is signed into law, we have no one to blame but ourselves. But make sure that we include the other factions in our fight. We have to fight for the keeper of squirrels, gerbils, and macaws. We have to fight for the small exotic cat fancier. We are all in the same boat together. Don't consider this just a herp thing, it's not. PJAC is not to blame for all this, and can and I hope will be a important tool to use in our fight. But this is OUR fight, so let's no kid ourselves into believing that someone else is going to save us. USARK will surely help, and has done great so far. But it's up to me and you and you and you. So now, when it's time to write letters again, and it will be soon, let's make sure that we double our efforts. Friends, family cousins, the guy that bags our groceries. Get everyone involved. Death before surrender. Well, perhaps not so drastic, but you get my meaning.

I don’t speak up in the forums very often, but Vanyard what are you thinking? You’ve started a rant about an organization that provides protection to our industry as well as others. You’ve stated no facts whatsoever. I thought that the BOI was a place to post facts with supporting documentation not conjecture!

Yea, that’s right, they are scum. They are selling us out, don't be fooled, they are saying yes to HR669: http://www.pijac.org/projects/project.asp?p=28

I’m sorry that you don’t agree with NRIP. I found it to be a pro-active approach. Any legitimate breeder whether small or large should all ready be implementing SOP’s. Plus it’s voluntary, kinda like BOI Good Guy certificates.

Do not support these liars, they are having secret meetings with HSUS and PETA right now, they want to save their own ass and put the rest of us out of business.

Where’s your proof? Show it to us! I saw/heard one heck of a testimony by Marshall Myers on the 23rd. He was the only person in the room that knew what he was talking about.

We are being sold out folks, BHB, Bill Brant, PIJAC, PETA, and HSUS are all in together. BTW, nice videos Brian, too bad it was all a lie.

Again where’s the proof??? You’re tearing down good people who busted the backsides to fight HR669.

HR669 is not dead; we were told it was by PIJAC and USARK

Now who’s spreading misinformation? Show the documentation!

Honestly, if I worked for PETA or the HSUS I’d want to shake your hand and thank you for furthering the cause.

It is possible to charge at Hell with a bucket of water, but against stupidity even the gods themselves struggle in vain.

WELL STATED!

Rich Beasley

Originally Posted by varnyard

That was dated April 23, the meeting I speak of took place after that date.

Given the very long history that PIJAC has supporting our industry, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm going to assume that their position nine days ago is the same as their current position. Until I see a statement from PIJAC contradicting Marshal's testimony on 4/23 I'm willing to believe that their position hasn't changed.

I'm pretty far out of the loop in the reptile industry for the last few years, but it sounds like you have some concrete evidence about a recent change. I would be grateful if you could present some evidence that PIJAC's position has changed since 4/23. I certainly reserve my right to change my opinion of PIJAC if I'm convinced that they are not working in the best interest of the reptile industry. I anxiously await seeing your proof.

Joe Hiduke

NRIP has nothing to do with HR 669. Anyone who thinks that one is the other hasn't read through ANY of it.
NRIP is a proposed VOLUNTARY program(like the AKC for dogs) that was written up in 2003, and the program has been posted publicly, because I've read it well before Crutchfield went off the deep end claiming that it is HR669. I said the same thing about the fees being abnormally high for a typical hobbiest.
Varnyard, I want to see your proof too. PIJAC and the others ALL said 'It's not dead, we need to keep our guard up, because they will be rewriting it' all along, were you not paying attention to those emails? We defeated the first draft by making our voices known, not by making them table the entire premise of the bill.
So far, I haven't seen any of your first post proven true. NRIP has nothing to do with ANY proposed laws. PIJAC did not say that HR669 was dead and done with.
I think that some laws will end up being made, but I also think we should fight against ANY restrictive legislation on the pet trade. If they really want to deal with invasive species importation, then they need to propose laws to do that, rather than laws that will cripple the whole pet industry.
Trying to rip apart one of the main fighters FOR reptiles and pets is NOT the way to help the herp hobby.

What concerns me here is the way some people here are poised for a fight within the industry. Currently, there is stophr669.com, nohr669.com, usark, and pijac, not to mention the fact that many non-reptile exotic hobbyists have yet to come on board. What we need to do is ALL unify and work together.

I urge everyone to calmly, rationally, contact everyone mentioned as supporting this plan to ask where they stand. Let them know where you stand and what you hope and expect from them either as an organization (pijac) or an industry leader (BHB). Remind them that most people that drive this hobby are not pet owners that keep 1 or 2 snakes to look at, but hobby breeders that fund their hobby through resale. That entire market will evaporate if this goes through. Again, be calm, intelligent, firm, and respectful.

I feel that the hot-headed knee-jerk rhetoric and advice given in this thread (sorry, Bobby...nothing personal) can very well be counter-productive and devisive within this hobby. It will be impossible for a divided community to stand up against the legislation that will ultimately bring it to an end.

Originally Posted by captnemo

What concerns me here is the way some people here are poised for a fight within the industry. Currently, there is stophr669.com, nohr669.com, usark, and pijac, not to mention the fact that many non-reptile exotic hobbyists have yet to come on board. What we need to do is ALL unify and work together.

Great point

Does anyone else get the feeling this going to turn into a who did the most for the hobby thing? I just don't understand why everyone cannot work together for one comon cause. KEEPING BIG BROTHER OUT OF OUR BUSINESS

Originally Posted by Serafim

Does anyone else get the feeling this going to turn into a who did the most for the hobby thing?

LOL, I said that same thing a month or so ago..

Hummmm must have missed that one John.