I'sn't it a beauty?

A species is defined as a population of organisms that NATURALLY interbreed and produce fertile offspring.

Interspecies fertility in captivity is not an indicator of conspecification. The whole Liger thing is the best and easiest example to understand... Asiatic Lions had ranges overlapping with indian tigers until such a point as they were largely exterminated- lions and tigers have proven to be interfertile in captivity but never ONCE was a liger found in the wild. Intrinsic isolating mechanisms are present which kept the populations seperate. These can be retarded or circumvented in captivity to produce those abominations against nature like the one pictured above.

Euthenasia is a seperate debate but when an animal represents a signifigant danger to a larger population, it should be quickly and humanely put down. Period.

Oh and uh... to the best of my current knowledge, every hybridized combination of snakes that has been tried has proven to be fertile with other crosses, back to both parents species and a few even to completely seperate species. The "naturally" is an important part of the definition of a species- there has NEVER been a wild corn x cal king found, no matter what the original poster seemed to think about released specimins (he pulled it out of someplace warm and dark... I suspect it's where he keeps his head so his ears don't get cold, two guesses as to where it is).

I had a feeling someone was going to bring up the liger/tigon crossings, well though you’re correct in the low percentage of finding the crossing out in the wild (or any animal crossing for that matter). You are incorrect about all hybrids being sterile. For your example Ligers and Tigons some the females are only found to be fertile, a male out of the crossings have yet to be found fertile. That being said I think everyone should notice that’s probably natures way of trying to stamp out hybrids, making sure they don’t prosper.

http://www.lairweb.org.nz/tiger/ligers2.html
http://www.lairweb.org.nz/tiger/tigons.html
http://www.lairweb.org.nz/tiger/hybridisation.html
http://www.lairweb.org.nz/tiger/hybridisation2.html

I do agree any animal shouldn’t cross-breed in captivity, well unless it’s to save a species, BUT even then it would never have the same genetics of the original animals, if anything cloning would be better. And all that is another touchy subject.

Though some hybrids are in fact beautiful, it’s really not what nature intended. If animals do not cross-breed in the wild. Why cross-breed them in captivity? Animals are a lot smarter than what some people give them credit for, they know better than to interbreed.

“In nature, individual species rarely, if ever, hybridize, and there is a reason. I think it has something to do with a thing called natural selection.”
“We simply do not have the right to arbitrarily and whimsically "create" hybrids. What God has ordained, let no man put asunder.”

Quotes both taken from here http://www.lostmymarblz.com/fl-breed...rd.htm#Hybrids
Both well put.

I personally do not feel any animal even if it is brought into this world as a hybrid, should be put down/euthanized for any reason other than to take its suffering away.

Kimberly, try reading and comprehending...

Someone *else* said all hybrids were sterile. I said it was a myth. I brought up the tiger-lion hybrids and there were NEVER ANY found in the wild. Not a single one.

There's these great user names posted up to the left of each post that let you know who said what so that you don't end up trying to address points made by two different people in one horribly jumbled post of your own.

try reading and comprehending

Why don’t you take your own advise and bite your tongue, not once did I quote you till now. I can help it if you’re a stingy old man, who jumps the gun on anyone’s post you disagree about. Furthermore I was agreeing with you on your aggressively harsh post about why people shouldn’t inbreed. It’s not my fault you look beyond someone trying to back your rear. But I’m guessing you don’t need help in such cause you feel you have many years of experience.

I brought up the tiger-lion hybrids and there were NEVER ANY found in the wild. Not a single one.

I also agreed with you about never finding a single hybrid in the wild. I guess you missed that too. This whole post is now directed to you, I hope you can see that.

There's these great user names posted up to the left of each post that let you know who said what so that you don't end up trying to address points made by two different people in one horribly jumbled post of your own.

I can clearly see that, no reason to get snippy about it. Also I thought I could address both points bought up in this thread without having to quote anyone on it, but I suppose you feel the need to get on anyone’s butt if you feel anything at all is directed towards you. Next time SEAMUS I’ll post your name so you don’t get confused to whom I’m talking to.

I’m not ticked but I don’t think you should be so harsh with half of the post you make. I followed many of your post a feel you have good points, that’s why I wanted to back you up on the morals on breeding hybrids, but alas I was sadly mistaken to back up someone that’s so unappreciative.

It's not even a very pretty snake. I find most of the hybrids to be rather ugly. And I was LMFAO when I saw a post on the kingsnake python classifieds where someone had an angolan/ball python cross available. Guess how much they wanted. $12,500! For a hybrid!

First off, in agreement to Kelli, I don't think it's a pretty snake at all. Regardless of hybrid/non-hybrid status, it simply ranks well below my standard of being an "average" looking colubrid, let alone "pretty." Secondly, GeckoTracks, there's no one else besides Seamus that you could have been paraphrasing. Either you were paraphrasing from him, you are in a world entirely of your own, or you have an extremely huge problem with the logic of any communication. I for one am guessing that you simply didn't like being attacked and tried to back out of your stance and look vindicated.
Captive hybrids, no matter what you like to use as moral justification, have no logical backing by anything you can find about definitions of wild species. If something doesn't happen regularly in the wild, don't pretend that it's ok in captivity simply because it can happen. Whether something can or can't happen in the wild or captivity makes no difference to me. But, if you want to use it as an arguement, make sure it has some rhyme or reason behind it. If you want to make weird hybrids, stick up for yourself by saying you like weird hybrids. There's nothing natural about it. It's just luck that they happen to breed when brought together by completely unnatural methods. If you're trying to get something new and exciting, good for you. Don't bother the rest of us with pictures. If you are into hybrids for the looks, don't show us mediocre animals with titles such as "Isn't it a beauty?," and especially not with the word "isn't" mispelled. After you post pictures of your prized hybrids, expect to be criticized regardless of your plans for the animal. Don't get into a battle over it, unless your entire point for posting was a flame war. I hope that's never the case. If it is, you should probably go back to first grade and start tripping kids to save us all time. Please, no more needless attention grabbing. No more pushing issue. If you want to talk about highly controversal issues, I'd like to ask that you do so for a purpose of moving forward, and not for attention or bickering. I'm sick of the fighting, no one will win. As a branch off of the "Hitler" comment earlier, we can look at it as an example that a world war wasn't able to make a clear stance, and we still daily see massive sub-cultures that are 100% for the extermination of practically every group outside of themselves. Let's try to cut all the fighting back, and make some more of it into informed debates. Let's try to cut out the "hot heads" and get back to work and study of the animals we all love. Whether pure bred or purely human induced hybrids, let's quit making animals into hobbies for our entertainment and viewing pleasure, and treat them with the respect they deserve. Sorry for the long post that slightly got lost from the original point.

Nice looking snake........BUT......not a big fan of creating new hybrids.

This is the Genetics, Taxonomy and HYBRIDIZATION forum isn't it? This would be the proper place to make a post about a hybrid wouldn't it? Beauty is a subjective thing that can't be quantified. Why can't someone consider this snake, any snake to be beautiful? Can a science based ideology prescribe aesthetics?

Thank you.
MFZeier

Or just keep the thing to itself no need to murder it