BHB reptiles "het" didn't prove out, won't fix it

Originally Posted by David Bellis

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Blind defense of BHB despite all of my email evidence and no response here from Brian.

What does it matter what I paid and what amount was agreed to? We agreed to an amount and Brian said he would send me a list to choose from. That never happened. Hence this thread. What mystery are you trying to solve?

No blind defense of BHB at all, I've never even had a transaction with Brian. I'm simply trying to fill in some holes that you left in your original post. You stated that you didn't believe the compensation to be commiserate with what you thought it should be. I'd like to see that defined. But you seem to be reluctant to do so - why?

Originally Posted by rabernet

No blind defense of BHB at all, I've never even had a transaction with Brian. I'm simply trying to fill in some holes that you left in your original post. You stated that you didn't believe the compensation to be commiserate with what you thought it should be. I'd like to see that defined. But you seem to be reluctant to do so - why?

Posted this and didn't see you had answered. Thank you.

Originally Posted by David Bellis

And the snake didn't change hands a crazy number of times. At the time, Chris was going to be sending me a couple snakes. Chris was also doing deals with BHB at the same time. Chris bought the Spider for me and sent it directly to me with paperwork. I never thought for a second anything like this would happen otherwise I would have bought it directly myself. It wasn't to get a smoking deal or a package price, it was just saving me from having to get two boxes delivered. I think Chris possessed the Spider for less than a week.

As far as Cliff goes, I have told Cliff numerous times that if Brian doesn't compensate him I will. If you guys feel that breeders should be able to sell hets left and right and only be responsible for the original cost to the original buyer then I feel bad for the state of the market. Scammers have at it.

In my opinion, if you sell an animal as a het and it doesn't prove out then the animal itself is the least of your concerns. How about the costs of raising a female up to size, getting that clutch and having it be nearly worthless? The morphs come down in price every year where losing out on animals that can be sold or held back for even a single season can be devastating.

If a breeder has to supply everyone who claims to have animals that were produced by them, and had multiple clutches they want compensation for, then scammers have at it indeed. Now that the the animal has been "proven" to not be a het, nobody after Cliff gets compensation right? If YOU had waited to prove it, it would be nobody after you.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Blind defense of BHB despite all of my email evidence and no response here from Brian.

What does it matter what I paid and what amount was agreed to? We agreed to an amount and Brian said he would send me a list to choose from. That never happened. Hence this thread. What mystery are you trying to solve?

Why the secrecy? You just want to share information that you feel justifies your post, but do not want to provide additional information when asked? I am curious also as to what resolution you think is fair, should brian compensate everyone who owned the animal, or just you?
Perhaps in retrospect, Brian feels that his initial desire to satisfy you (who did not purchase the animal from him) is unrealistic, like "on second thought"..... I would wonder where a breeders liability would end?
I have seen scenarios written out several years ago, where a buyer was wanting to be compensated for all the animals he could have produced if the animal they had purchased had not "passed away" (some of you old timers will remember Adam Block and Nerd)
Maybe in hindsight Brian felt his agreement to take care of the situation was premature, and has since changed his mind, therefore, it is nessesary to know what the initial agreement was, so we (the sheeple) can decide if we think it was fair...

Originally Posted by Casey Hulse

Why the secrecy? You just want to share information that you feel justifies your post, but do not want to provide additional information when asked? I am curious also as to what resolution you think is fair, should brian compensate everyone who owned the animal, or just you?
Perhaps in retrospect, Brian feels that his initial desire to satisfy you (who did not purchase the animal from him) is unrealistic, like "on second thought"..... I would wonder where a breeders liability would end?
I have seen scenarios written out several years ago, where a buyer was wanting to be compensated for all the animals he could have produced if the animal they had purchased had not "passed away" (some of you old timers will remember Adam Block and Nerd)
Maybe in hindsight Brian felt his agreement to take care of the situation was premature, and has since changed his mind, therefore, it is nessesary to know what the initial agreement was, so we (the sheeple) can decide if we think it was fair...

He already posted it.

He already posted it.

I know, I was typing at the time. This thread is moving fast.

Originally Posted by DaveyFig

If a breeder has to supply everyone who claims to have animals that were produced by them, and had multiple clutches they want compensation for, then scammers have at it indeed. Now that the the animal has been "proven" to not be a het, nobody after Cliff gets compensation right? If YOU had waited to prove it, it would be nobody after you.

I partially agree with your first point. If Brian said in his first email that he doesn't trust Chris or that he wasn't going to guarantee a het he didn't sell someone directly I probably would have made a post at that point. He didn't.

He knows Chris well enough to know that this isn't some complex scam or something. After the first clutches missed for me and I informed Brian he said to keep him in the loop as things move forward. He didn't offer to send a new animal or tell Cliff not to breed it. So yes at that point, with the email trail and contact with everyone involved I don't think it's unreasonable for him to owe both of us for the first lost clutches.

I do shoulder some of the blame for selling it to Cliff before the eggs hatched out. I had the eggs on the ground and a Hypo Butter male so I didn't need the Spider anymore and sold him. At the time I thought I had just hit bad odds on het to het and I reassured Cliff that he would prove out. He didn't and so here we are.

Originally Posted by Casey Hulse

Why the secrecy? You just want to share information that you feel justifies your post, but do not want to provide additional information when asked? I am curious also as to what resolution you think is fair, should brian compensate everyone who owned the animal, or just you?
Perhaps in retrospect, Brian feels that his initial desire to satisfy you (who did not purchase the animal from him) is unrealistic, like "on second thought"..... I would wonder where a breeders liability would end?
I have seen scenarios written out several years ago, where a buyer was wanting to be compensated for all the animals he could have produced if the animal they had purchased had not "passed away" (some of you old timers will remember Adam Block and Nerd)
Maybe in hindsight Brian felt his agreement to take care of the situation was premature, and has since changed his mind, therefore, it is nessesary to know what the initial agreement was, so we (the sheeple) can decide if we think it was fair...

There's no secrecy but you can keep defending BHB and coming up with conspiracies all you would like.

I didn't post it originally because it isn't relevant to the situation except in the minds of the people looking for something to attack me with.

Funny how no one is calling for Brian to respond here. Oh wait, that's right, he's the big breeder and is obviously right 100% of the time. What was I thinking?

Really I dont think peoples finances or what they spend on animals is anyones business. If u ask my what I got some of my snakes for Id tell u to buzz off. It dont matter if he spends $1 or $1,000,000. Brian needs to keep up to his end and make this right like he said. And not 6 months later.

Also I would like to see what Brian has to say.

Originally Posted by David Bellis

Funny how no one is calling for Brian to respond here. Oh wait, that's right, he's the big breeder and is obviously right 100% of the time. What was I thinking?

Well it looks like I got u covered, lol