PART 3
Ms. Barnett was referred to me by a person whose name I will not post in order to protect them from possible ramifications. NBC Dateline was doing a story on pet store animal abuse, and she was interested in the claims people were making in regard to the deaths of reptiles. We spoke at length, in rather general terms. I sincerely wanted to tell her everything I knew about Petco, and provide her with every document and photograph I had, but first wanted to discuss it with the person who had given her my name and phone number. This is the email I received from her later that day:
Subj: nbc
Date: 8/8/01 4:44:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:
Susan.Barnett@nbc.com (Barnett, Susan (NBC))
To:
LizardLady2001@aol.com ('LizardLady2001@aol.com')
Dear Marcia,
Thank you very much for you time today. Please feel free to contact me with any information you wish to share, just let me know when you are ready.
Here is my info:
susan.barnett@nbc.com
800-622-6397 x 3158
address:
Susan Barnett
Dateline NBC
30 Rockefeller Plaza - 4th floor
NY NY 10112
212-664-3158 (direct # for fed x)
fed x acc't #: 1475-8194-7
Thanks again,
Susan
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From: "Barnett, Susan (NBC)" <Susan.Barnett@nbc.com>
To: "'LizardLady2001@aol.com'" <LizardLady2001@aol.com>
Subject: nbc
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 20:05:33 -0400
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
__________________________________________________ ______________________________________
A few weeks later, I received this email from Ms. Barnes:
Subj: nbc
Date: 8/24/01 8:53:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From:
Susan.Barnett@nbc.com (Barnett, Susan (NBC))
To:
LizardLady2001@aol.com ('LizardLady2001@aol.com')
Hi Marcia,
I am wondering if it's ok for me to contact Thomas Morris regarding the problem he had with his geckos.
Do you have a phone # for him? If not, I will email him if you think that's ok to do.
Thanks,
Susan
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From: "Barnett, Susan (NBC)" <Susan.Barnett@nbc.com>
To: "'LizardLady2001@aol.com'" <LizardLady2001@aol.com>
Subject: nbc
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:20:11 -0400
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
My response:
Subj: Re: nbc
Date: 8/24/01
To:
Susan.Barnett@nbc.com
___________________________________________-
My response:
Hello Susan,
I do not have Tom Morris' phone number, but perhaps Trace @ Gexfiles does. I think he would be the ideal person to speak to directly if you want information regarding the horrible tragedies he has experienced, but I cannot speak for him. Tom (AKA "Vanyul" on the forums) is an extremely sensitive and caring humanitarian, and has suffered tremendously in every aspect (including his physical health) over the loss of nearly his entire breeding colony from the deadly, highly contagious disease Cryptosporidia which began from an infected animal purchased at PetCo. He is thought very highly of in the herp community, and I believe Trace has had more personal contact with him than most of us.
He has a wonderful Memorial Wall dedicated to his beloved little creatures (as well as a few of mine and others) which you can take a look at... it will give you an idea of the kind of person he is.
http://www.geocities.com/vanyul_69/memorial/index.html
If you do contact him, please keep in mind his extremely sensitive and fragile nature and that he may be subject to being very emotional and introverted at times. Considering what he’s been through, it is understandable and I trust your discretion with this personal information regarding him I have given you.
Regards,
Marcia McGuiness
“The Lizard Lady”
__________________________________________________ _______________________________________
A few days later I received an instant message from Tom Morris telling me he had been contacted by Susan Barnett from NBC, and he was glad they had talked. We discussed his tragedy and he told me that Petco was about to make a settlement offer to him. I was glad for him, and we did not discuss the terms.
I wrote this emal to Susan Barnes:
Subj: Petco reptiles
Date: 8/31/01
To:
Susan.Barnett@nbc.com
Hello Susan,
I chatted with Tom Morris this morning, and he said he's spoken to you at length. I'm glad you were able to speak with him, and I hope that he was able to provide some valuable information for you. He was very pleased that you contacted him, as well.
I had an employee from Petco call me a week or so ago, (Nathan) and he came by last evening to look at my Leopard Geckos and he asked a lot of questions regarding their health, behavior and husbandry. He said the stores provide virtually NO training for their animal caretakers and employees, and he was clueless on reptile diseases and parasites. He owns several reptiles, and that is the basis of his knowledge, and I have personally seen the reptile enclosures in his store and they are are very well kept. He also informed me that many of their animals come in sick, and just seem to waste away and die, and that a very large percentage of the reptiles they sell get sick and die, and are returned to the store for refunds. I was able to get a lot of information from him regarding Petco and their policies, as well as the source of their animals. He provided me with several copies of purchase orders and invoices for their reptile stock… they buy from California Zoological Supply (CalZoo).
http://www.calzoo.com. Also, Tom Morris told me this morning that the sick animal he purchased from Petco that infected his entire colony came from CalZoo.
I did not discuss anything with (Nathan) other than my deep concern and despair over the condition and treatment of the animals they are selling, and he agreed with me totally. He was anxious to learn as much as possible in order to provide better care for the animals and to "spread the word" that each individual employee can make a significant difference in the stores. He told me point-bank that Petco could care less about their animals, and the management strongly discourages veterinary care for the sick ones due to cost issues. He was very frustrated and saddened.
I do not know if (Nathan) would be willing to speak with you, and I am unsure if I should even mention anything at all about you or NBC. At this point, I am reluctant to get that directly involved, but I thought you'd be interested to know that there is someone who works for Petco that cares deeply for the welfare of their animals.
Regards,
Marcia McGuiness
"The Lizard Lady"
__________________________________________________ ______________________________________
Subj: nbc
Date: 8/31/01 12:17:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:
Susan.Barnett@nbc.com (Barnett, Susan (NBC))
To:
LizardLady2001@aol.com ('LizardLady2001@aol.com')
Well, that is certainly on interesting conversation you had with Nathan...
You sort of have to feel him out, use your gut instincts -- but if you think he'd be interested in speaking with me, I certainly would be interested in speaking with him. You can tell him there is a reporter who's doing some research on the pet trade and is interested in speaking with him on background -- meaning he's not going to be quoted or named. I won't put his job in jeopardy and the conversation would just be between him and me. Either I can call him or he can call me. Sometimes people are intimidated to call a reporter, so it's simpler if I can call him. Please let me know if you think this is feasible, and I completely understand your position.
thanks!
Susan
-----Original Message-----
From:
LizardLady2001@aol.com [mailto:LizardLady2001@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 2:09 PM
To:
Susan.Barnett@nbc.com
Subject: Petco reptiles
************************* my email above was written here *************************************
Because e-mail can be altered electronically,
the integrity of this communication cannot be guaranteed.
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From: "Barnett, Susan (NBC)" <Susan.Barnett@nbc.com>
To: "'LizardLady2001@aol.com'" <LizardLady2001@aol.com>
Subject: nbc
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:46:53 -0400
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
__________________________________________________ _______________________________
I cannot elaborate any further on the subject of NBC’s story, because quite frankly I do not know what the outcome was/is to date. My health was not good at the time, and since stress can add to FMS exacerbations, I felt it was in my own best interest to drop the entire Petco issue completely. I was too emotionally involved.
Then, I got this email forwarded from Trace at Gexfiles:
Subj: FW: [Fwd: DEATH OF GECKO]
Date: 10/8/01 6:39:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From:
trace@gexfiles.com (gexfiles)
To:
LizardLady2001@aol.com
File: Gracie.doc (17920 bytes) DL Time (28800 bps): < 1 minute
----------
From: Beardsley <beardsle@pacbell.net>
Organization: Pacific Bell Internet Services
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 13:09:14 -0700
To:
trace@gexfiles.com
Subject: [Fwd: DEATH OF GECKO]
Tracy,
I hope you get the attached letter I sent to my local Petco before I saw your web site.
From: Beardsley <beardsle@pacbell.net>
Organization: Pacific Bell Internet Services
Date: Dimanche 07 octobre 2001 04:06
To:
KimSh@PETCO.com
Subject: DEATH OF GECKO
Here is a copy of a letter that I had sent to our local Petco before I saw this web site.
Please let me know if the attachment didn't come through, I don't send many attachments.
Thank you for you interest.
Kathy
-Attachment-
--
Subj: Death of a Gecko
Date: 10/8/01
To:
trace@gexfiles.com
October 3, 2001
Petco
Attn: (Nathan), Reptile Department
1825 Salvio
****, CA 94***
Dear (Nathan),
I spoke with you on the phone a few weeks ago and you had asked that I keep you posted as to the outcome of our dear little gecko "Gracie." Well, here is our story.
My daughter Hilary and I had been watching the geckos at Petco all summer as she saved all of her weekly allowance to buy the tank and all the accessories. By the time she had bought most of the equipment, including the Gecko book, my husband and I decided that we should pick up the last few items and pay for the gecko for her. She was obviously very interested and excited about getting a leopard gecko.
We purchased "Gracie" on August 20, 2001. We brought her home and she immediately became the love of our lives. She loved crickets, meal worms, her hide, rock, water, etc. As the days progressed she began eating less and less. I talked to some different staff members at Petco and received some advice as to what to do, and "Gracie’s" tail was getting thinner and thinner.
At that point the bearded dragons and young leopard geckos were no longer for sale in your store, and there was a sign that said, NOT FOR SALE. As "Gracie" was eating less and less, we became worried and was given your name to speak to.
You listened to my concerns and advised us to see a vet which we did. To make a long story somewhat shorter, after trips to the vet and fecal samples brought in "Gracie" kept wasting away. She finally left us for Gecko Heaven the early morning of October 1st, 2001. The vet office told us her demise was due to Cryptosporidia.
In our phone conversation, you had asked me to keep you posted. I am very sorry to say that our story had a very sad ending. I can only hope that the rest of the lot that she came from is doing OK.
We really miss our "Gracie."
Kathy and Hilary Beardsley
**** Oakpark Court
*****, CA 94***
(925) 687-**** -------
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Subject: FW: [Fwd: DEATH OF GECKO]
From: gexfiles <trace@gexfiles.com>
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__________________________________________________ ___________________________________
Well, needless to say that was the very same local store and the very same (Nathan) I had spoken to. I immediately called him at the store, and confirmed ‘Gracie’s’ story. The store manager would not refund the Beardsley’s money because it was past the 14-day return policy. He told me that the batch of Leopard Geckos babies that had come in were all sick and he had quarantined them. He said they had come from CalZoo, and he had copies of the purchase invoice if I wanted them.
I then called the Beardsley’s, and spoke to Hilary’s mom, Kathy. We both cried as she recounted the tragic events that led to Gracie’s death, and how devastated Hilary was over it along with the rest of the family. They didn’t even care about a refund, or the fact that they had spent several hundred dollars on veterinary treatment and the necropsy. I was absolutely heartbroken for them, and volunteered to give Hilary one of my babies as a replacement for Gracie, but Kathy wasn’t sure at that point that they were even ready for another one yet.
I then sent this email to Cal-Zoo, Gourmet Rodent, Trace, the Beardsley’s, Petco and NBC:
Subj: Fwd: FW: [Fwd: DEATH OF GECKO]
Date: 10/8/01
To:
CalZoo@aol.com,
GrmtRodent@aol.com,
craigp@PETCO.com,
kimsh@petco.com,
beardsle@pacbell.net,
trace@gexfiles.com,
Susan.Barnett@nbc.com
To whom it may concern;
I received the attached e-mail this morning regarding one of the local Petco stores and the fact that they continue to sell sick and infected reptiles to the public. I know (Nathan) from that Petco store, and was advised that they get their reptiles from California Zoological Supply (Cal-Zoo). This employee is in frequent contact with me to gain knowledge and advise on how he can help the animals and "make a difference" in his store.
Last spring, I went through all the "proper" channels with Petco, and volunteered my time to give an educational presentation to the employees from 4 of the local stores. It was attended by several employees, as well as the District and Regional managers, and I felt that this type of education and support was well received until I made a post on one of the herp forums about the training an made reference to a tragic incident that immediately followed the seminar. I was contacted by the buyer for Petco, and the subsequent correspondence was rhetorical and condescending. At that time, I felt it was completely fruitless to attempt to continue to deal with this issue directly with Petco's management and on a corporate level, and that volunteering my assistance was a waste of time... until now.
I have personally witnessed and experienced the heartbreak and despair of how these beautiful, gentle animals are housed and cared for at Petco stores. The conditions are deplorable, husbandry and sanitation are despicable, and the employees are untrained and absolutely clueless in regard to the proper care of these animals, much less aware of the potential for epidemic spread of disease.
I am putting you on notice that if Petco continues to buy and sell sick and infected animals, and if the breeders/suppliers continue to raise, sell and ship these pathetic, sick little creatures, I will personally take this matter to the media and file complaints with the proper law enforcement and health agencies. I cannot and will not stand by and watch innocent animals suffer needlessly at the hands of individuals that consider them nothing more that inventory items. This type of business practice is soley responsible for the widespread heartbreak and grief that is caused when someone brings home a beloved animal only to watch it suffer and die. These animals and the public deserve better than this.
Marcia McGuiness
"The Lizard Lady"
__________________________________________________ _________________________________
I never got a response from Gourmet Rodent or any of the PetCorp people, but I did from Cal Zoo:
Subj: Re: FW: [Fwd: DEATH OF GECKO]
Date: 10/8/01 1:46:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: Cal Zoo
To: LizardLady2001
CC:
mbarnes@covad.net,
CRAIGP@PETCO.COM
Marcia McGuiness
Thank you for the e-mail, I am sorry to hear about the gecko.
(Nathan) was correct We do indeed supply quality reptiles to many Petco stores. We also sell leopard geckos, however we have not supplied Petco baby leopard geckos for sometime. They buy these direct from another breeder/vendor in FL.
I would however be happy to include one of ours no charge the next time the Petco store orders, to replace the one that died. If that sounds good please have (Nathan) contact myself or Mike.
Thank you for time and concern.
MR.Tarune "TY" Dillon
Managing Director
California Zoological Supply
1615 East Saint Gertrude Place
Santa Ana, CA 92705
Ph:714-641-1597 Fax: 714-549-8859
www.calzoo.com
ALL SUPPLIERS: I will be in ASIA from October 17, 2001 and back middle of the week November 19. I would like to prepare/confirm, receive or schedule any FALL shipments we have coming from you before I leave. THANKS.
In a message dated 10/8/2001 12:56:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, LizardLady2001 writes:
**********a copy of the email I sent them was included here ***********************
ALL SUPPLIERS: I will be in ASIA from October 17, 2001 and back middle of the week November 19. I would like to prepare/confirm, receive or schedule any FALL shipments we have coming from you before I leave. THANKS.
MR.Tarune "TY" Dillon
Managing Director
California Zoological Supply
1615 East Saint Gertrude Place
Santa Ana, CA 92705
Ph:714-641-1597 Fax: 714-549-8859
www.calzoo.com
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________
After several more phone calls from (Nathan) at Petco, I did eventually give him Susan Barnett’s contact information. A few days later, I got a call from the Beardsley’s and they did not want a replacement from Cal Zoo and wanted to take me up on my offer to give Hilary on of my Leopard Geckos babies. We set a date for them to come over so they could pick one out.
When they came over, I was very impressed with Hilary (11 years old) and her level of responsibility. She and her parents sat down together and read the entire book “The Leopard Gecko Manual” before getting Gracie, and the fact that Hilary had saved her own allowance to buy all the necessary items and get them set up ahead of time proved to me that she was deserving of a new pet. Hilary picked out a beautiful (very healthy) female baby, and to this day we are in contact.
__________________________________________________ _______________________________________
TO BE CONTINUED…………………………….