Avoid Steven Patterson (Apex Reptile Center) at all costs!

I am very new to Crested Geckos and I just started getting into them. I have been doing a ton of research and talking to a bunch of crested gecko breeders. I got a couple breeding pairs from a friend who is local to me so she is always there to help me. ANYWAY, I bought a pair of what was described in their descriptions as Extreme Harlequins from Apex Reptile Center on Facebook ran by Steven Patterson. Couple days later I found out that they are not extreme harleys. The female was advertised as just about ready to breed and she is 25 grams (I weighed her when I got her home), the male was described as ready to breed and when I weighed him when I got him home he is only 18 grams. So I then knew that I was lied to. I text Steven asking him about the male and he said that he listed him as RTB because he locked with one of his females and I said well 18 grams is not ready to breed and he then said that males don't have to be huge to be able to breed which I in fact knew wasn't true. I have a few people to back me up on this as well because I have been talking to a few people who already had very bad feelings about this transaction. The male also arrived with a kinked tail, now let me make this clear that this was a local pick up so it couldn't of happened during shipping because there was no shipping involved. I noticed it right as I took him out of his deli cup and it made me mad because he didn't tell me about, nor was it in his description. I then told him that the male had a kink in his tail and I was mad that he didn't tell me about it. He said that it wasn't there when he had him and sent me a picture he took of him the day before I picked them up which i see that it wasn't there. SO it still had to of happened before they arrived to me. Today he was in a rush to get to me because he had to get to Riverside to get to a work meeting and he could have smashed his tail being in a hurry but he kept denying it. He wouldn't own up to it and he started becoming very rude and disrespectful. A few of my friends had been telling me to kindly ask him for a partial refund for false advertisement and lying about everything else on top of that. He then got nasty with my and said I F'd the male's tail up and that he isn't responsible for it.

Now my geckos aren't the only ones being false advertised. He has a few other cresties that have major problems that he hasn't stated in their descriptions, so people are going to be buying cresties that have major health issues. Like for instance he has a male harley that is dehydrated (you can tell from wrinkly skin) and another male that obviously has floppy tail syndrome and it isn't stated in the description.

I have all the screen shots to prove all of this and people to back me up. You can message me on my Facebook page LIP Crested Geckos for other questions or comments and for pictures of the screen shots of the messages and listings.

Originally Posted by AphroditeGeckos

I have all the screen shots to prove all of this and people to back me up. You can message me on my Facebook page LIP Crested Geckos for other questions or comments and for pictures of the screen shots of the messages and listings.

Just attach whatever documentation you have, here, in this thread. If you have proof that currently-listed animals are being misrepresented, people shouldn't have to jump through hoops to see it.

Originally Posted by AphroditeGeckos

The male also arrived with a kinked tail, now let me make this clear that this was a local pick up so it couldn't of happened during shipping because there was no shipping involved. I noticed it right as I took him out of his deli cup

If you noticed an injury or defect, and it was a pickup, why did you complete the sale?

I was part of the thread on facebook - before you got the geckos, people let you know multiple times that the gecko in the sale photo was in shed so the color was not accurate, and that it was not considered by many to be an extreme harlequin. I understand being new to the hobby and not knowing exactly what to look for if you go in unaware, but you did have that info going in at least.

The size was probably harder to judge just by looking, if you are newer to the hobby. So I would understand that.

I guess I would say that to some people, if a male is capable of breeding, he is considered "Ready To Breed." It's not generally the public hobby standard, and many people wait until 30+ grams for males. If the owner honestly witnessed copulation though, the male is capable. And he does look like he has a bulge built for the job. So, something to be aware of in future dealings.

Unfortunately "just about ready to breed" for the female is such a loose phrasing... again, actual RTB weights even for females are sometimes contested, some people claiming that as soon as a female is able to drop infertile eggs, she's good to go, so that leaves the seller some wiggle room. So if size is important to you as a buyer, from now on, get the weight in writing.

The last thing - on the facebook thread you posted pics the seller took of the geckos right as he was bringing them to you (attached here). I am having a hard time seeing an issue with the male's tail. Can you show better pics of the issue?

And that is exactly what I told her. She called me a liar and telling me I don't take care of my animals, which isn't true. I've sold quite a few animals and have never had a bad transaction. 4 hours later she told me about the tail so I jumped right now my pics as I was sure it wasn't true and the pics above are what I took. They were sold to me as extreme Harley's from guyco geckos. Jon and Guy and good friends of mine so I know I did not represent the animal wrong, unless somehow they did.

Bought multiple crested geckos and other reptiles from Steven. Had NO issues what so ever, he knows what he's doing and very knowledgeable. if there was any issues I needed to know about the animal he would tell me before hand. I highly doubt he would lie about anything.

Honestly I take pride in what I do. I did flip things to make money. This is the wrong hobby for that. If you really have a problem il take back the male and give you another crested in the available album that's priced $200.

Dont* flip things.

I do not see anything wrong with the male's tail ... if there is a kink, it is slight.

As far as labeling, 25g can be almost ready to breed ... is not 35g RTB?

I don't know if they are extreme or not, but they are harlequins.

Post said almost ready to breed. It didn't have a link what so ever when I delivered