Brother, sister allegedly smuggled rare boa constrictor into US (Jeremy Stone)

Originally Posted by bcr229

There should be no criminal liability as long as the customer turned over the offspring. After all, the customer was duped and could be considered a victim of fraud as well.

OTOH if the customer turned over a different snake claiming it was the offspring...


Correct. I've also been peripherally involved when the feds decide they're going after someone, and do not wish to get that close to a federal investigation again. Waving a pork chop in front of a pit bull is less risky.

i certainly agree, but he had the hets for sale on his website, i know for a fact low key boas sold some hets to people, i saw the fires (het lucy) on facebook. the hunt for hets cant be so extensive to the point that they get all of them. again im just really optimistic about all of this and hope for the best because id love to see lucys on the market.

Originally Posted by KnM-Reptiles

i certainly agree, but he had the hets for sale on his website, i know for a fact low key boas sold some hets to people, i saw the fires (het lucy) on facebook. the hunt for hets cant be so extensive to the point that they get all of them.

there were hets sold and bred in the UK in 2010*, also read there was only the one founder and read there were 3 different ones, then that was refuted, so lots of stories out there on multiple forums for years. Hopefully the truth will come out one way or another but who knows.

*found a post from 2010 on reptileforums.uk that states "There was one up for sale at kempton last week for £35k" and saying the guy bred it from princess diamond hets, I can't verify any of this since I don't know the people that posted the info.

Regardless of personal feelings on the matter, IF there is not a legal source determined for that genetic trait, ANYONE at ANYTIME in the future who turns up with one is going to come under intense scrutiny and likely be showing their source records for their entire collection to the feds. And the feds could then start tracking back to EVERYONE they ever bought from and doing the same thing.

Depends on how must stink Brazil kicks up and how "religious" the feds get about pursuing this, but I think that genetic trait showing up at your place would be a REALLY big cause for concern. Probably renaming this to the "leper gene" wouldn't be too far off from the mark in how people are going to be treating it.

Yeah, sure, some will say it "spontaneously" developed, but is anyone really going to believe that? More to the point, will anyone buy one with the distinct possibility hanging over their head that it COULD be confiscated sooner or later? Maybe even your entire collection scooped up too?

Sure there may be some people who originally bought hets that didn't know they were facilitating in illegal activities by doing so.. however, this case is going to be rather public all over the usual herp sites. The feds depending on how serious they really are about this might give an amnesty period for people to turn animals over (and not be prosecuted), but there will be people who won't give them up. You can be sure they know damn well they are in possession of illegal animals and if they get caught with them down the road - they have nothing to hide behind - can't claim ignorance of the law at that point.

And who knows.. Jermey might not keep complete records which would make it harder for the feds to track snakes down on their own, but you never know how someone will behave when faced with serious jail time (if convicted)... he could be offered a plea deal by turning over the names of those who did buy from him to get a lesser sentence. Feds can't go after anyone in other countries - that would be up to the Brazilian authorities, but the feds would go after those in this country.

For anyone interested in reading the Lacey Act, I've attached a PDF to this reply. Please note the section about forfeiture. Think on that for a moment....

I guess I'm curious to know how law enforcement officials would track down who bought what. Would they look at PayPal, bank statements for checks or money orders, etc?? I'd be surprised to see them actually do DNA testing on any boas. I'm sure their budget & manpower has been cut like a lot of other federal agencies. I may be naiive but I can't see them spending a lot time/energy/resources on trying to find people who may have bought offspring, that would take them all over the US. Would they really go through someone's collection & inspect all bcc or bci? Do they know the difference? I had Ohio wildlife inspect some native black rat snakes I had years ago, & their attention turned to my turtles. They were very curious about my Red Cheek muds, thinking they were red ear sliders (another OH native). That ignorance scared me & I got out of native species pretty quick & let the permit expire. This story is quite interesting & I'm very curious to see how it progresses.

Jay Wagner

Originally Posted by EPICRATES

I guess I'm curious to know how law enforcement officials would track down who bought what. Would they look at PayPal, bank statements for checks or money orders, etc?? I'd be surprised to see them actually do DNA testing on any boas. I'm sure their budget & manpower has been cut like a lot of other federal agencies. I may be naiive but I can't see them spending a lot time/energy/resources on trying to find people who may have bought offspring, that would take them all over the US. Would they really go through someone's collection & inspect all bcc or bci? Do they know the difference? I had Ohio wildlife inspect some native black rat snakes I had years ago, & their attention turned to my turtles. They were very curious about my Red Cheek muds, thinking they were red ear sliders (another OH native). That ignorance scared me & I got out of native species pretty quick & let the permit expire. This story is quite interesting & I'm very curious to see how it progresses.

Jay Wagner

From my work in the fish and game field, law enforcement has a very hard time with identifying species in their jurisdiction but usf&w might be better at it. I will just wait and watch hoping Stone is found not guilty.

That truly sucks! If I had one, I would definitely
Not return it! F#!k that!

Originally Posted by EPICRATES

I guess I'm curious to know how law enforcement officials would track down who bought what. Would they look at PayPal, bank statements for checks or money orders, etc??

The article stated that the offspring were sold for tens of thousands of dollars, which is a reasonable price IMO for those animals. In my business payments at that level, especially for international purchasers, are made using a wire transfer. Inside the US it's either a wire transfer or cashier's check. Both forms of payment are very safe for buyer and seller - and both forms are also easily traceable by the feds.

Originally Posted by Dragon king 24-7

That truly sucks! If I had one, I would definitely
Not return it! F#!k that!

So you have no problem going to federal prison for facilitating in the commission of a crime? good to know.