Thinking About Buying A Possible Het Pied?????? PLEASE READ THIS FIRST!!!!

Not really sure where to go with this, but obviously I feel I have a responsibilty to the herp community as a whole. Please forgive me if this gets confusing or long and drawn out...

Some of you may remember that I had 5.0 (MALE) 66% possible het Pieds available not too long ago. These were purchased directly from Mark & Kim Bell, in short, these were all in the 450+ gram range and were to be long term project animals in my collection. Well, we all know how things can change, and I opted to sell. The group of 5.0 (MALES) ended up being broken down into three individual sales of 2.0, 2.0, and 1.0. All transactions went smoothly, and I included a copy of the original receipt from Mark & Kim Bell, as well as a receipt from me, with all my contact information, the exact quanity/sex purchased, date of sale, etc...weeks, even months go by, all is well.

Someone emails me about 2-3 months ago, asking me if I sold "x" 2.0 possible het Pieds, I checked my records and the answer was yes. He had traded for these animals and wanted to verify (after the trade took place I might ad) and all is well, nothing stuck me as being odd or fishy in the least.

Well...this past Friday, a gentlemen had asked me to verify if I had sold "y" any possible het Pieds...the name didn't ring a bell, I checked my records, and the answer was no. He then stated he had a receipt from Mark & Kim, and one from me as well, and these were sold to him as 2.3, all weighing between 250-350 grams or so. He said he was going to try and get his money back from this person before starting a negative thread here at the BOI, but said the word would be out either way, and I waited to hear back from him...well, guess what?? I'm talking to someone on the phone last night, putting the finishing touches on a deal we had arranged and BOOM!!!!! The guy that emailed me Friday regarding verification of these animals (you know, the one was going to try to get his money back) was trying to trade these same animals to the guy a had a deal with!!!! SMALL WORLD, huh??? He brought it up, I was like "wait a minute...I just got an email, blah-blah-blah" and look at what happens.

Mark Bell and I talked on the phone for an hour or so last night after all this reared it's ugly head, and it seems that someone has altered or forged "paperwork" and both Reptile Industries and I wanted to remind everyone to VERIFY THE ANIMALS BEFORE YOU BUY THEM. It only takes a phone call. It's worth it!!!!

Sadly, this is the route that some have chosen in the industry. It's a shame, but we all know it happens, so this is just a friendly reminder to do your homework. I have orders to get out, so I have to leave now, but I will included details a little later as far as names, etc, go...but as you can see this got a little confusing, I want to check all emails, and get the FACTS before I start writing names on the wall...so in the meantime...please BE CAREFUL!!

anyone that actually buys anything with the word "possible" in it.. is just being set up for a scam...

That's why ID pictures are a must. We have gone a long way since we proposed this system in the old BOI (check the post "heteros and the like"). Most reputable breeders have already adopted it. The Sutherlands' for example have set-up a system where all the animals they sell remain in a picture database. One just needs to know the ID# of a given snake go to their page, and check it with the corresponding picture.

Buyers should not accept photocopies of paperwork with no individual pictures. As Troy mentioned priorities change and you have to take that into consideration when buying an hetero or possible hetero morph. When buying multiple animals from the same breeder, individual pictures are required.

In MHO paperwork for "possible" hetero snakes has very little value. The only thing is guaranteeing is the snake came from "X" individual. Bottomline, that paper guarantees that the breeder is trustworthy, and thus your odds are improved above "0".

Kindly,

I feel possibles are a great way to get into some projects that may be, cost wise, more than you're willing (or able) to spend...but this thread isn't for talking the pros and cons of possible hets, it's just giving everyone a heads up.

I sold Greg Holland 2.0 "legit" 66% possible het Pieds, all 100% verifiable. the other 3.0 are also "legit" but there is an invoice or invoices for 2.3 from either Mark & I that is NOT legit, so please... contact me FIRST if you're not 100% sure the animals background/history. Pic ID's are a great way, but I think microchipping will be our next option.

from a deal Troy & I did on 8-26-2003, for sale now. These are LEGIT and Troy can verify this.
Thanks
Greg Holland

for clearing that up!! I really appreciate that!
Greg Holland
www.imageevent.com/gmherps

I think this whole ordeal started when a previous buyer had traded an animal or animals and the original paperwork was included with the deal...from there it seems someone may have altered or forged those receipts and 5.0 or 2.0 or whatever the numerical quanity was originally was changed to 2.3 or something of that nature. Sad, but thanks to this site, we can get the word out to unsuspecting buyers who at least have the chance to research the person(s) or in this case even the animal(s) their contemplating purchasing. I hope this all ends well, and I'm sorry Greg, I should have contacted you before I started this thread so you knew what was going on. My apologies.

I just can't believe someone would actually forge paperwork. Now, needless to say that person(s) are screwed.
Take care,
Greg Holland

Originally posted by screamdreams
I feel possibles are a great way to get into some projects that may be, cost wise, more than you're willing (or able) to spend...but this thread isn't for talking the pros and cons of possible hets, it's just giving everyone a heads up.

I sold Greg Holland 2.0 "legit" 66% possible het Pieds, all 100% verifiable. the other 3.0 are also "legit" but there is an invoice or invoices for 2.3 from either Mark & I that is NOT legit, so please... contact me FIRST if you're not 100% sure the animals background/history. Pic ID's are a great way, but I think microchipping will be our next option.

If the word "possible" is in there... then.. there is no paperwork that makes it legit. I can write on a piece of paper that my tree boa is possible het for chondro...

Troy,
I have started sending photo ID's with each snake I sell. I also sign my name across it several times. I will attach a pic of what I send a buyer. Hasn't been sold yet so it doesn't have my signature yet. I just started doing it this year. They may not turn out to be hets but at least a seller has something to show a buyer should he resell it.

Scott,
Not everyone can afford a true het.. many people have hit the jackpot with poss. hets..

Ron Radloff