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Old 09-15-2004, 08:57 PM   #21
TripleMoonsExotic
I have lived in the York area for 15 years. Their is one PetCo in the area on Rt. 30 next to Old Country Buffet. I couldn't mistake it for any other. The one in Hanover is on Eisenhower Dr next to Pier One. Again, I couldn't mistake it for another. If ill fish are quarantined. Why did I count 4 cichlids with a severe case of body fungus in a single tank 2 weeks ago when I was there? Why did I see a half dozen misc. mollies with fin and tail rot? I also saw 2 disgustingly anorexic leos on the sales floor, at which my younger sister pointed at them and asked why they didn't look like my hatchlings. Don't get me wrong though, it can't all be managements fault. The girl who was their at the time didn't have the slightest knowledge as to what was wrong with the fish, or showed any interest in treatment. When I mean sales floor, I mean customers have access to the area WITHOUT supervision. Those fledglings really shouldn't, in my opinion, be accesible to customers until they are well on their way to being weaned. Socialization is a great thing for a young birds, but in a controlled environment with experienced individuals.

Wanda, the SuperPetz in York has had the SPCA called on them many times. Their animals have been confinscated. It hasn't stopped them from being in business or selling the animals they have. I walked in there about a year ago and saw 4 adult ball pythons in the space of about 10 gallons covered in ticks and stuck shed. I spoke with the manager, who was indifferent. I contacted the SPCA, and the animals disappeared. I do not know what happened to them, and I haven't been back to the store.
 
Old 09-15-2004, 09:39 PM   #22
ShannanD25
Ive been in York all my life, 'bout 30 years now. Granted I spent some away in the Air Force. Maybe we just see things differently. I don't inspect fish very closely, I've just noted that their tanks "look" clean, especially when compared to other local petstores. I've talked with Sarah in aquatics and she was telling me about how they clean their tanks and showing me the neat little gadgets they have. I am always going by the Leos to see if there is one I just have to have....I've never seen one missing a tail or anything. Sarah had pulled one and had it in the back because it wouldn't eat....She showed me it and we were talking about what to do. I know how picky they are with their little furry critters as my friend works at the vet Petco uses. Their bird room is supervised by Mary( I think), who has birds at home and is a bigger bird fanatic then me or my mother...and for my mother to comment that any bird room in a pet store is great is incrediably rare. Maybe we go on different days or soemthing. Their dragons are always alert and active. The anoles have their talils. Sometimes it looks to good. Even I have Leos with dropped tails.
I wish I could keep my critter tanks as spotless as theirs....Though they still have the stupid heat rocks....and I haven't seen Sarah in awhile...she knew her stuff about every aquatic/reptile! hope she is still there.

I haven't heard of the SPCA coming in. That would have been in the news. If there is a problem with an animal it is taken to the vet...I mean they paid $700 for a guinea pig! And that isn't an I hear through the grapevine comment. My friend nursed her back to health after an operation to amputate a leg, fell in love with it, but had to give her back because Petco paid $700 for her and wanted her back...

I say a third person should go visit and tell us their opinion. To me Petco is one of the few, very few, good petstores and I list that opinion on my website.
 
Old 09-16-2004, 05:49 AM   #23
humpbacks1962
SPCA, regardless, is NOT the government agency inspecting and issuing permits to sell animals in your state! They're probably busier filming the next Animal Planet episode confiscating 300 feral cats and operating on Fido for adoption.

I hear the same: gripe, gripe, poor animals abused, oh they have come already, nobody cares, why should I? gripe, gripe...

Petco is a trustworthy facility, overall. More important, subject to inspections and certifications or else. Your chances of getting a healthy animal are higher if you buy from a facility like that, than if you buy from an annonymous breeder who may keep theirs stacked up in drawers that may not even be cleaned daily, calling them by numbers, if anything.

And the truth is, if anyone takes animals out like you claim, they could not be back to resell anything as if nothing happened. If that is the situation, sister have you got a chance here to immortalize your fight for a noble cause!

Wanda

PS: I visited your website:eek3: Under all pop up windows and in between associates links, I did not find anywhere pictures of *your* breeding and husbandry facilities. It is OK for Petco to offer nice, healthy animals at low prices
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Old 09-16-2004, 01:26 PM   #24
KelliH
Quote:
Your chances of getting a healthy animal are higher if you buy from a facility like that, than if you buy from an annonymous breeder who may keep theirs stacked up in drawers that may not even be cleaned daily, calling them by numbers, if anything.
Where do you think Petco gets their leopard geckos from? They get them from a few large mega breeders that produce tens of thousands of leopard geckos every year. I have heard through the herp grapevine that one of those "breeders" froze (ie. euthanized) more than 30,000 yes that's right, 30,000 leos last year. Yet you think one's chances of ending up with a healthy animal are higher if you buy from a Petco, rather than from a smaller breeder like Shannan or a mid sized breeder like myself? That's just wrong!

Oh yeah, I keep my leopard geckos stacked up in drawers, and I only clean twice a week. I even call some of the babies I produce by numbers. But you need to think about something: if it weren't for breeders like myself and others, there would be no leopard geckos available in the pet trade at all today. Just think about it for awhile.
 
Old 09-16-2004, 02:06 PM   #25
ShannanD25
Good point Kelli!

Petco does by from huge breeders. To me, huge breeders have less time to pay attention to their critters while a not as huge breeder or small breeder has the time to spend on the care of the critters. These huge breeders do it for the money and all that matters is the numbers. But to me, personally, I do it cause I love the little critters....except when they bite

However, at least Petco(depending on management and staff) provides a very clean and *almost* proper setup to give the guys a chance. I'd say Petco is your best choice out of Petstores but your overall best choice is to buy from a reputable breeder. It is true, you don't know the conditions their Leos are raised in. But a picture tells a thousand words, and so does one's reputation. IF you are worried that what you see is not what you are going to get ask the Breeder to send you a picture of the Leo on today's newspaper(so you know it is current by looking at the date). An unhealthy Leo is going to be obvious, or look up their name on the BOI. Ask around.

No Breeder is perfect.I'm not. But what matters most is their love of their hobby, not the love of the money and numbers....
 
Old 09-16-2004, 02:31 PM   #26
Storm55
Rebuttal

Quote:
Your chances of getting a healthy animal are higher if you buy from a facility like that, than if you buy from an annonymous breeder who may keep theirs stacked up in drawers that may not even be cleaned daily, calling them by numbers, if anything.
I also completely disagree with this statement...

As a general rule, you will find that most smaller breeders got their start because they enjoy keeping and working with these animals. In my opinion, the majority of the large scale breeders work primarily for the money. Small breeders, or as I prefer to call us, "hobby breeders" because thats what we are work with much smaller groups of animals. Due to this, we are able to provide each animal with individual attention and care. Our animals usually have names and backgrounds that we know well. Many of us even know detailed information on each and every geckos' habits and personality. Do you really think any of these large facilities can tell you whether or not their prize carrottail breeder prefers mealies to crickets, enjoys eating from their hand, or likes pooping on top of their hide? I don't think so.

The point that I am trying to make is that while the small hobby breeders may only be run by one or two people, those people have dedicated their time and lives to these animals that they love so much. They go to any lengths to provide the best care for the geckos and their babies that buyers will eventually own because they take pride in the animals that they work so hard to make healthy and happy.

Of course in any hobby, you will come across bad apples, but speaking for myself, I would always choose to buy from a small breeder over a large breeder because I believe that their animals as a whole are treated better, given more attention and care, and regarded as the facinating and beautiful creatures that they are.

To my fellow small hobbyist breeders, I respect each one of you. These wonderful animals deserve to be cherished as pets and given the best attention and care. Kudos to you all who put your animals first before anything else. I don't eat before my "kids" do, and their enclosures are priority over my living space. I always try to remember that these guys rely on me 100% so it is my responsibility to give them everything that they need when they need it. I bend over backwards for my animals and I am darn proud to be their personal servant! In return, they light up my life with their bright eyes and their big gecko smiles! I'm such a sap when it comes to my kids!!!
 
Old 09-16-2004, 03:15 PM   #27
Karmic
I'm not a breeder, but I guess I must be a bad owner! I don't clean my leos cages every day. And I even have 2 females I've had for 6 months, that I don't have names for yet either. I just call them both "sweetie". I guess they could be Sweetie1 and Sweetie2.

Personally, I prefer to buy from a breeder who participates on these boards, rather than some miscellaneous classified ad. But that's what the BOI is for. If your unsure of someone's trustworthiness, check 'em out first.

And I agree that the chain store's animals come from "gecko mills". Any facility that treats their animals as nothing more than potential money that must be sold in huge lots, is not too terribly concerned if they are healthy or not. These sick animals that end up in the pet stores should have been noticed before they were ever shipped out. Instead their health is stressed even more by shipping, and then in most cases being kept in an inappropriate environment until they either die or the uninformed buyer takes it home.

Every pet store and every gecko is an individual case, but i think I'll stick to buying from the hobby breeders.
 
Old 09-16-2004, 03:23 PM   #28
humpbacks1962
WHOA!Let the flamin' begin!

But while you're at it, re-read the post. If your animals are dirty, clean your facilities before you complain about public, inspected facilities. If they are clean and your animals beat Petco's standards of quality, pat yourself in the back for it. If you found a trustworthy breeder, post a positive somewhere.
If so-and-so sells mistreated geckos to Petco then report it!
Call PETA, they have plenty of volunteers with free time to chase down herds of abused geckos heading out to sales tanks

Bottomline: Take action rather than post mere gripes. That was my point all along, Jeez!

As far as I am concerned, the freaking Petco tanks I have seen are cleaner than many breeders' boxes. Agree to disagree if you wish, but it does not change the fact that one is licensed and inspected while the other is not. It is not bashing breeders, dear.

That is way fftopic:
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Old 09-16-2004, 03:34 PM   #29
KelliH
Hi Wanda- No need to get upset. I didn't. I just wanted to bring up some points about Petco and the leopard geckos they sell. That's all, no hard feelings

Here's a few of my leos. They live in sweater boxes in a rack system. I love my geckos and I baby them bigtime. Most of the other smaller breeders I know are the same way.

And I will say it again, you are MUCH better off buying from a reputable breeder than Petco.





 
Old 09-16-2004, 03:36 PM   #30
ShannanD25
Talk about some junk in the trunk.....Those are nice fat girls/boys Kelli!!!!
 

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