Is my thinking unreasonable?

We spoke once on the phone and had maybe two emails. We agreed that we would talk on Saturday or Sunday after Thanksgiving. I called him I believe Saturday and left him a message. I did not recieve the email I think until Tuesday morning from him. I thought he lost interest. He could have called me all last week and explained to me that he thought we had a misscommunication and that we still had a deal and I would have tried to make it right for him. I would have much rathered to have sold it locally for fear of shipping. I think I even explained that to Shaun. Shaun payed exactly the same that I asked of Brandon. Again Brandon if you are reading this I am sorry if you feel like I did you wrong.
Thanks,
Gary Johnston

Shaun,

I would NOT have done the same thing, so please do not include me in your list, thank you. I do not consider an animal sold unless I have money in my hands (except on rare occassions that suit my liking), but Brandon OFFERED to pay for this animal in at least three different ways to my counting!

1) PayPal

2) Money Order

3) He offered to come to Gary's place and pick up the animal, paying for it directly!!

Gary, for whatever reason was unable to accept these money offers when they were made. Fine. But to me, that means Gary owed Brandon a bit more than what little time he was given before you were sold the animal. I just would have handled it differently (ie: asking you to wait a day or two until I had a confirmed rejection of the animal by Brandon), but I wouldn't have put myself in this position in the first place because of the system I use in my sales.

All of that is just my opinion. I see no reason for Gary to be permenantly branded a bad guy or to suffer any other repercussion. I just think he made a poor choice, and he even said he wishes he had handled this a bit differently.

Also, Brandon did not come on here flaming Gary or anyone else. He simply stated that he thought he was wronged and wanted others to comment on whether he was out in left field on this. How is that using the BOI as a weapon? I notice that you have only recently registered on Faunaclassifieds.com and have a total of three posts (all of them in this thread, by my count). Do you really feel confident in your BOI expertise to lecture us about how this "tool" ought to be used?

Darren in Shaun's defense I told him that I was getting grilled on this site by you guys calling me in so many words "A Scammer". I think he thought he needed to chime in on this just as you did. I am an unknown in the herp scene. I feel like as well as he that you guys are pilling on. I have appoligized to Brandon privately he has not responded yet to my appology so I don't know where he stands. But really I think he had some part in the miscommunication also. I am man enough to admit that I should have called him again on sunday out of common curtisy. But really nothing more. Nope I didn't want the Paypal I wanted the cash when we met on the weekend. We were supposed to me on the weekend or schedule another time to meet in a phone call on the weekend. I really think that there was just a misunderstanding I don't know why Brandon chose to bring this on here but it is and I feel like I have to defend myself because I am such a "flake" as Darren put it.

Gary Johnston

This seems to be a "no win" situation. There are quite a few ways that this could have been handled and all of those had upsides and potetnial downfalls. Don't fault Mr. Johnston for handling it the way he did. If you have had any reptiles for sale on the internet, then you know how many people out there "want" or "must have" what you have for sale. In this case it seems that Brandon really was interested but was the victim of unfortunate timing. I once had a black blood python for sale on kingsnake.com and had a person reply that he wanted the snake and wanted my address so he could send the payment. I did not hear back from him for a week and I e-mailed him and asked what was going on. He said he lost my address and would get out a payment overnight and he apologized. Well, a month later I put the snake back up for sale and never heard from that person again.

I guess you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. The first time I saw my name on here was for a similar situation. I could have handled it different, but I didn't. Some people agreed with me, most did not. You cannot please everyone, there is no use in trying to. But you can try to do business with people you never see or even talk to as best as you can and at the end of the day, hopefully be seen as one of the "good guys". I think by Gary posting on here and apologizing for the misunderstanding goes along way toward his character. I don't believe he needs the title of "flake" or "shady character".

Just my $0.02. Derek Roberts

I am inclined to agree with the last statement. Let this be a learning experience for Gary. And let that be it.

I have to go with the seller on this one. If I left a message for a potential buyer on a cell phone Saturday morning when we had agreed to speak over the weekend, and then didn't hear from him for 48 hours, that animal would definitely be back on the market.

The buyer stated "I didn't get a chance to check my cell messages Sunday". That's a pretty lame excuse for not responding for two days. It's a cell phone. It is usually hanging from your belt. That's why we have them...ease and convenience.

I don't think either of them has committed any major faux pas here but I most assuredly do not see that the seller is in the wrong at all.

Let's review, shall we?

What I actually said was,

"If the guy is that much of a flake to act like you described . . ."

Note the key word in all of that: IF

I did not say that Gary was a flake. I said that IF Gary did exactly what Brandon said he did, then I think that is a flaky way to behave. I do. I still do.

However, I also said that, as far as I am concerned, Gary did not do anything wrong, per se, but that it showed poor judgment. Gary has apparently agreed to this, saying that he probably should have done differently.

As to why Brandon has not responded to Gary's appologies, I cannot say. I have no idea who Brandon is or why he might do anything.

Let me say this one last time, and then I'll try to shut up about it all. I think that if someone says, "Oh I want it! Don't sell it to anyone else!", this is entirely different from saying, "I'm going to be in your town on __________, and I want to bring you the MONEY." Brandon was obviously more than a "looker" because he tried to pay in at least three different ways. Gary, for whatever reasons (they are his own, and he is entirely entitled to them), rejected those attempts of Brandon's and he sold the snake to someone else. Personally, if a buyer was TRYING to pay for an animal, and the ONLY reason he had not yet done so was because I had put him off, I would feel a professional responsibility to give that first buyer first right of refusal.

Is Gary in the wrong? No, but to say that Brandon is using the BOI as a weapon just because he thought that this practice was unorthodox in some way and wanted some other opinions is unfair as well. To be honest, if I were Brandon, I would have left Gary's name out of it at first, if I were just looking for other opinions.

That's the way I see it on both sides. Brandon came on here, looking for opinions, and I gave mine. That's all it was.

Later --

Darin,

I do feel that some of the comments posted are very opinionated. (I do realize that this is what this forum is for "opinions")

And in some of the posts the opinions seemed unfair
1. Casey Hulse infers that from Brandons side of the story that it was a good thing that Brandon did not PayPal Gary.
2. In your first post you refer to him as a flake and wrote "I would not do business with such a person in the future."

I know that with the information given that they are reasonable opinions.

However, knowing what reputation means in this hobby I felt it was only fair to write in and let people know that I have done business with Gary and had a very good experience. That I believe that he had done no wrong. In fact you seem to agree with that to a point as well. In your Third post you write "I see no reason for Gary to be permenantly branded a bad guy or SUFFER ANY OTHER REPERCUSSIONS." as appossed to suggesting that one should not do business with such a person in the future as is stated in your first post.

I know that there were many OFFERS for payment made. But offers are still not sales. And to wait for "a confirmed decline" seems a little much. I'm sure that if we all waited for people who where interested in our animals to call back and tell us that they did not want them any more that we would all be waiting for phone call to this day for animals that have since been sold long ago. A day and a half of not recieving any word from some one that is a POTENTIAL buyer seems to be reasonable to most of us.

As for my using of the phrase "weapon" to discribe this forum it might have been a little rash but after reading your Third post I realize that it was not too rash after all I am not a Senior Hillbilly and after all what could a junior member intellectually or ethically offer to a Senior Hillbilly. Just because you post a lot doesn't mean you are an Applegate. Or a better lecturer than I.

Shaun,

The "hillbilly" thing is my way of being self-depricating. I kind of tease around about it, but I'm a little sensitive when others think they can take that bit of my person and run me around the barn with it. So, while I have not attacked you personally (only suggested that someone with as limited exposure as you currently have might not be able to fully understand what it is that we do here), I really would appreciate you not attacking me.

I am a hillbilly through and through, but I'm a hillbilly with a fairly impressive background (if I do say so for myself), and I'd like to leave the personal attacks behind before they get out of hand. Agreed?

Take Gary out of the picture for a minute. You are obviously biased toward him as you have done business with the guy and know him on some level. Obviously, he counts you as a good enough customer/friend to ask you to come to his aid here on the BOI. No problem. You may very well have very good reasons for all of this, but you have to admit that it may be clouding your perceptions a bit.

I have nothing against Gary in any way. However, if I tried (mulitple times) to buy an animal from someone (offering him CASH), and the guy put me off but said we should get together over the weekend to actually fulfill the deal, and then he called me once (didn't get me, but left a message on my cell phone), and then he sold the animal to someone else, several things would be true for me.

1) I wouldn't get mad

2) I would think the guy is a flake

3) I would think the guy is unprofessional

and

4) I wouldn't try to buy this guy's animals ever again

Now, that's just me. Obviously you have a different idea about what it means when a customer says "Hey I have the cash and I'd like to give it to you. Can I come over right now?" Is that a sale? I would say so, but apparently you would not. That's a little scary in my opinion. To each his own, I suppose . . .

"Brandon said he did, then I think that is a flaky way to behave. I do. I still do." How many animals have you sold over the net? People window shopping happens all the time. I dont see anything wrong here. If I was the origanal poster (name?) I would have paypaled the money right away if I was that serious. He had his email address all he had to do was puch in a password and click send money. If I was sure I wanted it, then we could have worked out the shipping/picking up details later. The simple fact is he could have paypaled Gary and didnt. He agree to talk to him on Saturday or Sunday and didnt. From what I gathered Gary fullfilled his end by calling, when he received no return call monday it was sold.

asking you to wait a day or two until I had a confirmed rejection of the animal by Brandon

Humm and then when you never got your confimation because he decided not to respond would you have waited 4 or 5 days 8 or 9? till ya got the clue? How many chances in the mean time would you have passed to sell it?

Do you really feel confident in your BOI expertise to lecture us about how this "tool" ought to be used?

a little high up on your soap box arent ya? although I guess I better not talk up to you with your 400+postings, since I am down with the rest in under half that

I didn't get a chance to check my cell messages Sunday

as suncoast pointed out where was his cell? hanging from his belt? so since he couldnt live up to his end of checking his messages or calling him over the weekand as agreed, do you really think he has properly used this tool by whinning here after he didnt get his way

Brandon was obviously more than a "looker" because he tried to pay in at least three different ways

you know how many times I have gotten phone calls from people, I wanna pay ya by credit card, oh wait I can do paypal or how about ill just overnight ya a money order "please hold that animal for me, im really gonna take it" then the money never shows I either never hear from them again or its excuse after excuse, anyway that my rant for the day