Al Brown/ Liar

And maybe an apology for calling him a liar too.

As a lesson learned, I would at least sign the paperwork. If someone took that document, scanned it, cropped out the bottom photo, and added any norm and started selling them, word would get out that Al Browns paperwork is questionable and no one would want to touch them. This could result in quite a few emails and calls from everyone trying to verify paperwork over the years.

Yes, anyone can forge anything, but honestly, that document would be the easiest. Not trying to insult, but if there is a standard, it should at least include a signature ... at least I would recommend it.

Can someone post a good example of the paperwork that should be provided? Not stirring the pot, but I am curious. I have never received any paperwork on any animal I have purchased other than an Albino Columbian female from Boawoman two years ago.

Originally Posted by Focal X

As a lesson learned, I would at least sign the paperwork. If someone took that document, scanned it, cropped out the bottom photo, and added any norm and started selling them, word would get out that Al Browns paperwork is questionable and no one would want to touch them. This could result in quite a few emails and calls from everyone trying to verify paperwork over the years.

Yes, anyone can forge anything, but honestly, that document would be the easiest. Not trying to insult, but if there is a standard, it should at least include a signature ... at least I would recommend it.

Not to nit pick here, but if you are going to point out what people can do to ID Papers in Photoshop, understand it would be a relatively simple process to remove a signature or place a forged one on them.

The best thing to do would actually be to watermark the picture with a custom watermark, but even then ... Photoshop and other programs make it incredibly easy to make things that you want for whatever reason you want them in that regard.

His paperwork is more than some of the paper work I have gotten over the years. Rich has some ridiculously unreasonable expectation here for some lineage that borderlines AKC registration. That is just not something anyone makes a habit of in the industry.

At the end of the day, Chris is right. Paper work is worth the reputation of the breeder and little else.

Originally Posted by shane159

Can someone post a good example of the paperwork that should be provided? Not stirring the pot, but I am curious. I have never received any paperwork on any animal I have purchased other than an Albino Columbian female from Boawoman two years ago.

It's really up to the seller. I provide a copy of any and all pictures requested, within my power of course, and lineage as far back as I can go. All feed, shed, defecation, dr visits, etc as well, for the entire time they were in my care.

Not everyone will, or can, go to those extents though.

Wow, I would say Rich, don't sweat the small stuff. You are going to give yourself a heart attack. I think you are stuck on a point where Al said he would do something and may or may not have, but it seems like a trivial point. I think you have pretty much shown yourself to be more trouble than you are worth, I hope you stay away from Ball Morphs.

Dave

Photo ID would be just a pic of THE PURCHASED ANIMAL and his info. You got pics of both parents, the parents' info and a pic of the purchased animal and his info.

That's lineage. Apparently the lineage didn't go back as far as YOU would like. But there's nothing anywhere that sets some standard for lineage to mean "3 generations" or "7 generations" or "40 generations". Lineage means you know who the parents are. Via knowing the parents in this case you even knew some of the grandparents.

And you never answered the questions of "when did you recieve the snake" and "did you get the text/message saying he was on vacation and would return oct 31"?

Signed would have been nice, especially if he stated "signed papers", but it's something that danged easy to accidentally overlook. I've done it myself, sending off way more important paperwork than a snake ID without signing it.

Just read the post. OP chill out! You are jumping the gun.

A question I am pondering here is, why, when you didn't get the paperwork with the detail that you were looking for, did you not just contact the seller and communicate to them exactly what you were still in need of, rather than starting this BOI thread and trying to blemish their reputation. You don't question the legitimacy of their lineage, as you have stated in this thread, so you do in fact trust the seller and it is just a matter of clear communication and straightening out some paperwork.

For this purchase, were you in such a time constraint for perhaps, a resale, that you needed the paperwork immediately or some transaction you had arranged was going to be prevented? Otherwise, why couldn't you just take the time to work out the small details, since you were already feeling comfortable with the quality of stock?

Sometimes these things can be frustrating but consider, if you are placed in an extenuating circumstance, be it a vacation or an unplanned occurrence, what level of patience do you want [or expect] your customers to have with you?

Originally Posted by allreptiles1966

Thats ok.I am just about done finishing my collection.Have fun selling to others.Its your right.I wasnt looking to buy from you.
And if Al tells me its easter i'm suppose to believe him huh?How old are you buddy?
If you lie,you get called a liar man,what else can i say.I did not get what he stated he would send!I am not looking for anything extra.Lineage papers and photo id.Thats it!
When people ask for proof its a jungle because i'm new,and i say,i dont have any.Guess what happens,they move on.
Having signed papers and genetics to back it up sells!
Thanks for your special input buddy.
And God Bless??? Are you for real? Christians do not talk to others this way.

Rich, Just because your papers tell you the male is a jungle, you still have to know what to look for to determine what babies are jungles and what babies are not. If you don't know how to do that, your still in the same boat. If a customer asks you why is this a jungle, you should know WHY its a jungle. The papers look great to me. I would like them signed for grins and giggles, but wouldn't fret that!

As for how far back your definition of lineage is, there is no (AKC) of reptiles, atleast to my knowledge. If you don't like that, you should be the first to start it. Go for it!

As for patience in deals. I was supposed to pick up some new racks at this last Cbus Show. I got there, guess what, he didn't have them. Said he had to redo them. Not a big deal, life goes on. I didn't get them when I thought I would but my animals are still safe and warm in thier current enclosures. When I get them, it will be well worth the wait and patience. Sometimes things happen, especially when your having racks built to your design by someone else.

If you get this worked up over little things like this, just wait karma's a B***H.