Global Captive Breeders

ok heres the story:
around late sept. i contacted mitch about a pair of blue tree monitors he had for sale on kingsnake for 1000$. i sent the paid asap and was told that he would be shipping via delta dash. my local delta dash closes at 11pm and the plane was not arriving till 1045pm. i paid the guy at the desk a extra 50 bucks cash if he would wait and get them due to the fact i didn't want them to get cold. i opened the box at delta par micths instructions and made sure they were alive. they where cold but alive so i brought them home and got them in there setup.
about two weeks later the female began to look weak. i called mitch and he told me to lower my humidity (which was at 60%) and lower the temp ( witch was at 86 hooked to a herpstat) and she if she did any better in a day or so. the next morn it was dead. i called mitch and he told me he would replace her with a baby blue tree for xxx$. i was not thrilled that it was going to cost me more money but thought it was better then nothing. we both agreed that it was getting chilli and should wait till warmer temps.
i woke up to find the other blue tree dead the other morning. i took it to a local vet and she found ticks on him. now mind you that these are the only animals i have gotten that i was told were c/h and parasite free from anyone! i deal in mostly balls and have bought all of them from trusted breeders and know they are all c/b. the vet a friend of mine told me that she believed them to be w/c and not c/h. she told me she was sorry that this happen and didn't charge me for the look over. i brought the blue home and put it in the freezer. i sent mitch a e-mail and ask him how we could deal with this cause i feel as tho the blues were sick when i got them. i'm waiting to hear back from him and just thought i would start this thread to keep everyone informed on what happens.
i would also like to hear what everyone thinks would be fair? i think i'm intitled to something considering that the animals were w/c not c/h. the only reason i didn't notice the ticks is because i was told not to handle them they would stress easy. i have talked to other blue breeders and told them how they were setup and they all said they should have been fine! any one who knows me knows that i am a freak when it comes to taking care of my reptiles and only buy what i fell is the best for them. i setup a whole canopy for them with misters,t-stats,uvb/uva bulbs and timers. i bake all my mulch just to be safe and use throw away deli cups for water bowls that i change twice a week or when ever needed. i also use f-10 to clean everthing.
this is not a bad guy thread! i have not heard back from mitch yet so i'm not sure what he is going to do! i just want everyone to know what is going on and will update this post either way!!

thanks all,
bruce angelini

just got this:
where else did the ticks come from? they were on the animals when you sent them. the female died only a couple weeks after you sent them. i didn't notice because i didn't want to stress them out. i know that they didn't get anything here considering its winter. they came from you. you even told me that you had other problems with blues you sold to other people as well. you also said they were healthy and bug free. that not the truth though is it. i talked to other blue tree dealers and they all said my setup was great! none of my other animals have bugs at all just the ones i got from you. if you don't want to make it right then whatever. i was wondering why you were selling a pair for 1000$ when most blues go for that alone. if it's to good to be true then it prob. is huh? and what baby? you never sent a baby it was two adults. and how did i confirm it's well being sevral times? i told you the male was eating and the female looked sick then it died. how is that confirming well being? if anything i was telling you there was a problem. the male just hung in longer or got sick from the sick female you sent. say whatever you want but i go to the extreme for all my animals and this is the last time i'll buy anything thats not cb with proof over the net.

> From: behmfamily@cox.net
> To: reptileman1@live.com
> Subject: Re: Message about: New Shipment of Monitors
> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 23:36:48 -0800
>
> Three months later and you find ticks and parasites and you now believe that
> I sent you sick animals. The animals were in perfect shape when you received
> them. The baby was in perfect shape in the months after. My guarantee
> doesn't last forever and certainly not after you confirmed its well being
> several times. And to clear things up, they were not captive hatched or
> wild caught, but captive bred in Indo. That's a big difference.
>
> Mitch
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <reptileman1@live.com>
> To: <behmfamily@cox.net>
> Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 9:14 PM
> Subject: Message about: New Shipment of Monitors
>
>
> > *************
> > NOTE: This message was sent to you via the Kingsnake.com Classifieds.
> > If you feel this message is fraudulent or abusive please forward it to
> > classifieds@pethobbyist.com.
> > NOTE: DO NOT flag this message as SPAM/JUNK as your ability to receive
> > legitimate messages from Kingsnake.com Classifieds may be compromised
> > *************
> >
> > i woke up the other morning and the other blue tree i bought from was
> > dead. i brought it to the local vet and she found four ticks on him. i
> > told her that they were c/h and she said not likely because of the ticks
> > and parisites (not mites either) she found. these are the only animals i
> > have gotten that are wild at all and know they must have been on them when
> > you sent them to me. it is winter here and no way they could have come
> > from me in anyway. i believe that these animals were sick to begin with
> > and have checked with other breeders of blues about my setup. they all say
> > that they should have done just fine. i didn't handle them as to not
> > stress them and prob. why i didn't see the ticks to begin with. i kept the
> > one that just died and put it in the freezer. i'm not happy at all and
> > would like to know what you think would be fair to fix this. i don't feel
> > that this is my fault considering that they must have had these problems
> > when i got them. you had also told me that all!
> > of them were looked over and had no problems/parisites and this is not
> > the case. please let me know.
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------
> > Click on (or cut and paste into you browser's
> > location window) the URL below to view the ad that
> > this message is in response to.
> >
> > http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?de=819252&cat=53
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------
> > This message was sent by an unregistered or non logged in user.
> > This person may or may not be who they say they are.
> > The return address they provide may or may not be their correct address.
> >
> > Sent 11:14 PM, Dec 11th, 2010 from I.P. Address
> > 96.233.152.212/pool-96-233-152-212.prvdri.fios.verizon.net
> >
>

i geuss this is a lesson learned! next time i'll go through a known breeder. i just find it strange that the only animals in my whole collection that has a problem is the ones i thought i got a great deal on. i understand that it has been a while but i'm sure that this was not due to lack of care. i love my reptiles and wish i ccould have saved them. i let trust get in the way of better judgement. i thought they were parisite free and learned the hard way always take a new animal you get from someone you don't know of to a vet as soon as you get it. i know now that i'm out the money and sad that the blues are gone. R.I.P guys your happy now!

got this when i woke up:

From: behmfamily@cox.net
To: reptileman1@live.com
Subject: Re: Message about: New Shipment of Monitors
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 08:07:22 -0800


my error. I confused your situation with that other buyer. As far as I'm concerned, I owe you one animal.

i must say i'm glad that he is willing to meet me half way on this. and hope that it does work out. will keep everyone posted.

It would be very easy to determine if the animals were WC or CB because of the ticks. Did you or your vet get the ticks ID'd? Generally an easy thing to get done at your local college biology department.

she was unsure of the spieces but knew it was not local. the deer tick is common here and is very small black/brown thing. these were about the size of a pen round or so and white. either way i geuss they were cb in indo. so who knows?

Did you ever get fecals done on these? I'm sure they had very heavy parasite loads.
Captive bred in indo huh? ...... does that mean farmed? I bet it does...

i'm not sure about the cb in indo either. i'm waiting to see what goes down. so far he says he only owes me one animal and i geuss it's better then nothing. i did tell him i prefer something cb so we'll see. either way i will be taking any new animal right to the vet for a full check up. it could have just been bad luck for both of us. atleast he is atempting to work with me so fingers crossed that it goes better now.

Did he ever provide (or did you ever see) his Terms Of Sale? If so, what kind of garuantees does he put on his animals?