Temporary place for this first chat log. We had a great talk with Kevin and hope to have him on again soon to talk some more. This log is revised to make sense of all the questions, answers, and comments flying around! For an unedited version of this chat, email me at
steven@junglemistreptiles.com
Mon Jun 16 19:59:44 PDT 2003
MR_Jungle_Mist: Kevin, we'll start with the basics.....how you got started in Ball Pythons, what attracted you to them...
MR_Jungle_Mist: Anything you care to share to begin with!
Kevins_Typist: I was keeping snakes as a hobby....
Kevins_Typist: I was still actually working a real job and breeding some of them
Kevins_Typist: I then freaked out at some guy at work and wanted to kill him...
Kevins_Typist: so it was just better to quit
Kevins_Typist: I actually thought I could support myself breeding snakes
Kevins_Typist: I started with my collection and about 7K
Kevins_Typist: I took a HUGE CHANCE
Kevins_Typist: I worked every day
Kevins_Typist: and still do
Kevins_Typist: somewhere I was able to get the breeding and reselling done
Kevins_Typist: and things started to work
Kevins_Typist: I find myself here doing the same
Kevins_Typist: I have tried to focus a bit and specialize
Kevins_Typist: Do things that not everyone else is doing
Kevins_Typist: I often like things that others overlook
Kevins_Typist: Hence ball pythons and big nasty RETICS!!!!
Kevins_Typist: I made a few smart choices and played the ball python route and that turned out well
Kevins_Typist: If I did not choose the right projects I would have failed along the way
Kevins_Typist: So there! That's it!
Rich_Z: Kevin, do you ever lay awake at night worrying that some virus could completely wipe out all of your hard work?
Kevins_Typist: Yes, I worry about snakes that are sick...
Kevins_Typist: what is wrong....
Kevins_Typist: will I get eggs.......
Kevins_Typist: I have seen it all
Kevins_Typist: I learn alot when I do encounter the problems too.
Kevins_Typist: If I did not encounter them along the way I may overlook stupid things and get destroyed after I amass a huge collection!
Kevins_Typist: THEFT is always a worry!!!!
jerry_dorgan: so how many pairs of balls do you breed at Nerd?
Kevins_Typist: Jerry, I have no idea.
jerry_dorgan: What balls have you had better luck with, as far as sellin and breeding?
Kevins_Typist: The Spider Ball Python has been #1
Kevins_Typist: It has allowed me to make some great mutations
Kevins_Typist: albinos will always be good
Rich_Z: What about all of the imported balls? Do they have any real negative impact on your captive bred stuff bringing the money they are worth?
Kevins_Typist: I do not think so....CB babies are hard to produce and sell for $15 when you actually breed normals
Kevins_Typist: That hurts for sure!
Kevins_Typist: As far as the morphs, I think it hurts the pastels and ghosts since those are still found in the wild in some numbers
Rich_Z: At the Orlando show recently, tables were COVERED with imported balls!
Rich_Z: How many TRUE genetic traits have been identified in the balls at this point?
Kevins_Typist: I am amazed that years ago we did not see these animals...
Kevins_Typist: they were very RARE!!!
Rich_Z: I wonder if color genetic mutants may baffle predators that have an image that means "meal" to them. The new color doesn't fit that image any longer.
Rich_Z: Consequently, the proportion of those variants will likely increase in a population. Just thinking out loud...
Kevins_Typist: I have no idea of the numbers.....I do not sit around and ponder such things....I worry about what is NEXT!
Kevins_Typist: Maybe 30 ish
Kevins_Typist: I can name some if you wish
Kevins_Typist: Has everyone seen the new ghost spiders?
crazycorn: not i
ksshane: me either
Kevins_Typist: I really doubt that a color or pattern mutation like what we are seeing in the wild will do that
Kevins_Typist: maybe a pied or albino
Kevins_Typist: The real thing is the COLLECTORS are the predators and they want those mutations.
Rich_Z: Anerythrism in the corn snakes proved to be a positive survival trait for those animals exhibiting it. Therefore they increased proportionally over the normal colored animals in the region.
crazycorn: Have you ever or do you do work with Leucistic (SP?) balls?
Kevins_Typist: Have I had a white one to breed? No.
Kevins_Typist: I have interest in that project and it should prove itself in the future
jerry_dorgan: Do you have alot of trouble with the balls going off feed? And what can you do about it?
Kevins_Typist: Jerry, in what sense?
Kevins_Typist: as in it stops feeding and gets skinny?
Kevins_Typist: Ball pythons key into humidity and feed better when it is 60%+
Kevins_Typist: Dry them out and use a basking light and you are telling it not to eat!!!
Kevins_Typist: They need to feel secure and remember they live in tight little burrows!
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: I had not thought of humidity as the problem. Will this perhaps help with a WC that has not eaten in at least 8 months?
Kevins_Typist: It can be the reason....lots of places to hide too!!! Crumpled paper works well with a hide box
jerry_dorgan: So for the most part, it is how we keep them?
Kevins_Typist: How you keep them is EVERYTHING!!!!
Kevins_Typist: You have to give them what allows them to feel secure!!
Kevins_Typist: Spotlights are a typical no no!
Hlynn1975: I give my snakes cat pans (new) as hides and they seem to like them. They also have newspaper substrate. I will up the humidity and see if they eat better for me.
Kevins_Typist: Hlynn, those boxes may be too big
Kevins_Typist: They want to fill it up!!!
Kevins_Typist: TIGHT!!!
Hlynn1975: They do fill it up. When one of them is fully in hers she lifts it off the bottom a bit. I got the kitten sized pans.
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: Hlynn~ I use cereal boxes for large balls, and toilet paper rolls for little ones. Amazing what the will squeeze into!
Kevins_Typist: OK, those cereal boxes are good...put some crumpled paper and moisten it a bit
MR_Jungle_Mist: Q from Cheryl?
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: Cool. So I have several neonates this year. First time for these. I have resorted to assist feeding two of them that have lost about 10 grams each (begining weight was 65 grams for 1, and 75 for the other) I have two more that have not fed yet and are going on about a month without feeding. When should I resort to assist feeding these?
Kevins_Typist: Spray down the paper before you try to feed....imitates a rain
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: humidity again. I'll try that, thanks
Hlynn1975: spray the day I feed or a day before? do they prefer to eat in the rain or after?
Kevins_Typist: Hlynn, they prefer to eat after the rain
Hlynn1975: ok, feeding day is tomorrow, I will mist them tonight.
Kevins_Typist: Cheryl, Let them shed and wait 7-10 days for the first meal
Kevins_Typist: This often helps the shy ones....they establish a cage environment and then get hungry
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: They have all shed, but I was not keeping them at proper temp until very recently (unexpected cold snap in Southern California caught me BUILDING thier rack) I suspect this may be a problem. a Few that have fed regurged. Again, I suspect my error in not having high enough temps for them
Kevins_Typist: If they regurge there is a problem
Kevins_Typist: How cold?
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: probably down to 80, but only breifly
Kevins_Typist: 80 is not cold enough to make them regurge unless there are problems
Kevins_Typist: proazoa infection, I would wager
Rich_Z: What sort of medication would you recommend for protozoan problems?
Kevins_Typist: Flagyl is what you use for a protazoan infection....Metranidizole
Kevins_Typist: The dose is 75-125 mgs per kg, repeat in 10 days
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: I have some of that. How would you administer it? Inject a pinkie? Or tube feed it?
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: Flagyl and metrazol (SP?) for the neonates I have? Tubed or injected in pinkie's?
Kevins_Typist: I put a piece down the back of the throat....you can do it as a tablet or liquid
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: I have some that is liquid. Will have to check expiration dates (bought it over a year ago for a different snake) but if is expired I know where to get more
Kevins_Typist: Check the dosage per cc.....same as per ml
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: Ithanks Kevin (And your typist) I'll do that tomarrow
Rich_Z: Do balls ever exhibit a preference for something other than rodents as babies?
Kevins_Typist: They eat rodents as babies....do not vary!!!
Kevins_Typist: I do resort to assist feeding if needed
Kevins_Typist: This helps stimulate the metabolism
screamdreams: Hello Kevin, I'm the guy who emailed you the "movie" about you being light years ahead of us all, LOL!! Man, I've got so many questions for you that I'm stumped, but I would like to ask you how the Albino Spider is coming along?? Also, in your opinion, is a Pastel male the best $1,500 (or under) investment in the BP market right now??? Any tours comin' for Crotalus?!?!?!?
Kevins_Typist: Albino spiders are just GREAT!!! They are better than I could imagine
Kevins_Typist: Very orange/yellow
screamdreams: That's what Mark Bell said!!
Kevins_Typist: Crotalus has enough for another CD!!!
screamdreams: Awesome!!!
Kevins_Typist: That is first....I still may have too much stage freight for a tour!!
Kevins_Typist: The movie was FUNNY!!! Thanks!
Mickey_TLK: Kevin, is anyone working on pied crosses, like albino pied balls, ect
Kevins_Typist: Yes there are double hets for pied albinos
Mickey_TLK: any other pied crosses in the works
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: Do you ever encounter trouble with scale rot? I've had two come down with scale rot and I suspected too high humidity in the vision tanks
Kevins_Typist: No, I have not. If they are WET then you will see that....are you using newspaper? These babies are CB?
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: I'm bringing up too many questions at once. I am sorry. The scale rot was two balls in Vision cages, on aspen substrate being misted every other day. Changed to newspaper, used neosporin. Cleared up. The babies are captive hatch 03's I purchased before they were offered their first meal. Purchesed 4 on 4-26-03. 2 of those I am assist feeding. 5 I purchased on 5-17-03. Two are feeding on thier own, three are not feeding. 10 I purchased on 6-4-03. 7 have fed, 5 have regurged, but all of these were accidently cooled
Kevins_Typist: np, Cheryl
Kevins_Typist: DO NOT MIST ASPEN!!
Kevins_Typist: It grows a horrible fungus
Kevins_Typist: Aspergillus....this kills animals!!!! NO ASPEN!!!
Kevins_Typist: I like cypress and newspaper
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: Cyprus? Do you worry about mites?
jerry_dorgan: Kevin, you are not afraid of bugs in cyprus?
Kevins_Typist: I do not see mites coming with cypress
Kevins_Typist: they come from snakes!!
Kevins_Typist: wood mites are different
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: good point, I'm about at wits end with this WC though. I'll try the humidity again though. I have to check my notes, but I think I just lowered her humidity last month hoping that change would help
Rich_Z: Dry aspen is also rather dusty. Sounds like bad stuff all around to me.
Rich_Z: Tried it, didn't like it. Way too dusty. Didn't know about the fungus problem. Good thing to know about...
John_Apple: never used aspen for anything
crazycorn: you should use it for sand boas
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: I've been using aspen for my corns, but that can change
John_Apple: Rich try shredded newspaper
Mickey_TLK: Kevin, will you be doing the tinley park show this year (and is there a tinley park show this year)
Rich_Z: Mickey, I saw Brian at the Orlando show and as far as I know the Tinley Park show is on..
Mickey_TLK: thanks rich, havent seen any info on it anywhere
Kevins_Typist: Yes, I think I'll be at Tinley Park this year
Rich_Z: It's a pretty good show. Very well run and worth the trip.
Kevins_Typist: Brian said he would kill me if I did not go!! He is big, fat and horrible so I better go!!!
Mickey_TLK: lol
Kevins_Typist: Brian Chicago Reptiles that is
Rich_Z: Got to get your money in by July 1 if you were there last year, though..
Mickey_TLK: I met you there the first year of the show, seen the spider balls for the first time in person, awsome snakes
jerry_dorgan: it is in August right?
Kevins_Typist: October, jerry
jerry_dorgan: thankyou
crazycorn: Rich, will you be at west palm show this saturday?
Rich_Z: No. No shows for me until Daytona. Thank goodness!!
crazycorn: oh ok
Mickey_TLK: I know this is a ball chat, but any new exiting boa morphs been imported ?
Kevins_Typist: Not that I have seen. They are making them well in the states!
screamdreams: Kevin...your personal favorite BP in your collection right now??
Kevins_Typist: Killer bees and coral glows.......but WAIT!!!! Something is coming!!! GRRRR
screamdreams: ohh yea!!!!!
Jon_Tarutis: no love for the albino spiders....guess you have to send them to me
Kevins_Typist: Yeah, just need some time....
Rich_Z: Man, you need to develop a line of Spider Balls with red bellies. Black Widow Balls...
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: now you can't drop a bomb like "Something is coming" and not give a bit more info than that! Come now!
Kevins_Typist: I have huge love for them!!! When they breed, THEN I will class them as FAVS!! They have some time still
Hlynn1975: Kevin's being mean teasing us like that.
Mickey_TLK: I think the grr was a hint
Rich_Z: Usually Daytona is the place to see the new stuff... Always seems to be the showcase of the latest stuff out there.
jerry_dorgan: Cheryl, I'll bet they are not red.......lol
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: LOL! Yeah, bummer, you know me and my weakness for "Red!"
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: Thats it Kevin. Now your being labeled a "Tease"..........come on man.....give it up, what are you holding out on us!
Kevins_Typist: Nope, I cannot jinx myself....the bold one gets all of the bad luck!!! I don't need any MORE!!
Kevins_Typist: I will take a spider and put it in red kool-aid....up to its sides and all
Mickey_TLK: you wouldnt be the first kev
Kevins_Typist: I can do that in short time too!
Mickey_TLK: well maybe the first to do it with a spider ball
Rich_Z: I thought that was Gatoraid?
Mickey_TLK: koolaide, gatoraid, food dye
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: Hey, I tried that. I actually was hoping the electrolytes would get my hold out WC to finally eat, but mostly I wanted to make a "Blue ball" for my hubby. Snake didn't turn blue, AND it didn't eat!
Kevins_Typist: Too much sugar, and your hubby would not appreciate the "blue balls"
Kevins_Typist: Sugar is not good for snakes!
Kevins_Typist: Sugar shock!!! They do not have this type of thing in their diet!!!
Mickey_TLK: dont want to count your chickens before they hatch
Kevins_Typist: Red, coral glows are near to that....then we could make a pastel coral and that may be in the right direction
Rich_Z: Yeah. Don't take deposits on a long shot, either...
Kevins_Typist: I don't take deposits....that means I will fail!!!
Rich_Z: Been there, done that myself!
Rich_Z: And all this time I've been doing corns the hard way....
Kevins_Typist: C'mon, corns are EASY!!!!!
Kevins_Typist: Almost an exact science!1
Kevins_Typist ) Kidding!!!
jerry_dorgan: uh oh
Rich_Z: Breeding them is, sure. But when trying to get the 1 out of 64 or longer odds, LUCK has a huge bearing on things.
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: I'm telling ya Kevin, I have a real weakness for Red, you make a red ball python and I'll be in real trouble, I don't own enough of this house to mortgage it again!
Mickey_TLK: Well I hope to see you in Tinley Park Kevin, and keep up the great work, you have great animals
Kevins_Typist: Why thank you! The snakes do most of the work, I am more like the janitor and love connection
Mickey_TLK: goodbye all, great turnout
screamdreams: I know Brian (BHB) has got some HUGE females, what's your heaviest female tipping the scales at??
Kevins_Typist: My best was 9 lbs.....she was old......I'd say around 8 lbs.
screamdreams: Dang!!
jerry_dorgan: wow
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: that impressive
screamdreams: Whole lotta Rosie!!
Kevins_Typist: They know, if they are worth all sorts of $$$ and are special, they just KNOW
Kevins_Typist: AC DC!!!
Rich_Z: Gawd! I would LOVE it for someone to name a FAT blood python the "Rosie O'Donnell" phase....
jerry_dorgan: lol rich
Kevins_Typist: It would never breed with a male and it would eat everything
Kevins_Typist: It may even eat the supposed mate
crazycorn: How long is your longest?
Kevins_Typist: 5'+
Kevins_Typist: 5.5'+
jerry_dorgan: you feed mostly rats, f/t?
Kevins_Typist: Yes!! Rats!!!
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: okay, thanks Jerry, that reminds me. Kevin. You feed Live, Pre-killed, Frozen thawed? and why?
Kevins_Typist: Frozen and pre-killed when it works. Hold outs get live!
Kevins_Typist: I do like rats...in fact, I love them.
Kevins_Typist: They have great personalities when you give them a chance......but so do chickens
jerry_dorgan: lol
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: I have a hard time not getting attatched to the rats. Not a problem with the nasty mice, or that rotten Hamster
Kevins_Typist: yep, mice just seem mindless.....hamsters can be snotty
Kevins_Typist: Rats are like little dogs!
Kevins_Typist: They just do not live long enough
Hlynn1975 hates little dogs
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: My female hamster nuetured my male hamster. I've named her BeElzaBitch
Kevins_Typist: The poor hamster!
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: Rats are like short ferrets! Have a horrible time keeping the kids from naming the ones I have designated food!
Kevins_Typist: I have a pet ferret too.
Rich_Z: I show something new and spectacular to my wife, and she just says "Why you getting excited? It's just going to die on you!"
screamdreams: LOL!!
Kevins_Typist: Man, that is rough!
Kevins_Typist: The problem is snakes are alive and they can die....we just have to make more than what we kill
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: I don't know Rich, everytime I look at your page I see another couple hundred in snakes that look pretty good!
jerry_dorgan: Kevin, what do you think will be the outcome of the idiots trying to ban reptiles as pets?
Kevins_Typist: I think there are so many of us it will be hard
Kevins_Typist: But....they will take away some of our rights...
Kevins_Typist: that is the miserable part of it
HerpLuver: Ok heres a Q, id like to get into breeding balls, but would like to do it in steps. By this i mean that i would like to start out low and work my way up to selling the HIGH end guys. What would be a good start? Besides normal balls.
Kevins_Typist: a higher het male....keep them well and make possible hets....
HerpLuver: And BTW im an experienced herp owner
Kevins_Typist: that is the way!!!
HerpLuver: LoL
Kevins_Typist: Your hard work pays off!!!
Kevins_Typist: Gen stripes and lavendar albinos make very good ones!
HerpLuver: ahh, so easier said than done
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: Gen stripes are in the VERY high price range right now
MR_Jungle_Mist: NERD says: Herpluver, what morphs do you like?
HerpLuver: well i honestly like Pieds and albino's
HerpLuver: Although im sure i havent seen HALF the ball morphs
screamdreams: I'm playing the odds on 3.0 66%ers from Kim, how many females would you hook them up with Kev??
screamdreams: Pieds that is
MR_Jungle_Mist: NERD says: 6 each when it works well!
MR_Jungle_Mist: NERD says: less for normal breeder males....a good male can get 6 girls knocked!
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: what about pastels. How do you see those as an investment for the hobbiest? Someone looking to support their hobby, not make a "Fortune breeding reptiles for fun and profit"! LOL!
MR_Jungle_Mist: NERD says: Pastels are GOOD!
MR_Jungle_Mist: NERD says: No question, they are going to drop a bit more bu they are valuable when breeding them to other mutations..the next "thing!"
MR_Jungle_Mist: NERD says: A killer pastel is always nice to see!
HerpLuver: so how much would a pair of pastels cost
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: So, as we are watching our females mature, I have some 02's as low as 400 grams, and one that is up to 700 grams. Now that 700 gram girl is my MOST expensive snake (100% het pied from Kahl). Should I be hoping she will hit the 1500 and be breedable next year, or plan to hold her until 05 no matter her weight?
MR_Jungle_Mist: NERD says: Yes
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: yes...........hold her until 05 no matter what? Or yes.........hope she reaches 1500 by next winter?
Kevins_Typist: Cheryl.....
Kevins_Typist: how does she eat?
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: very well, one to two large F/t Rats every week, but she is an 02, and I am SO carefull of her (Still can't beleive I spent that much money on her!)
Kevins_Typist: In my experience they can be a bit slower to mature
Kevins_Typist: I could see her around 1100-1200
Kevins_Typist: that is big enough!
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: thanks, lets hope. When it gets closer to time next year, maybe I will ask for more advice. I worry a lot about the investment I made in her and her mate
Kevins_Typist: Cheryl, I think you will be fine, I understand the big investment worry!
bigretic: what is good breeding size for a male to breed to a 2300 gram female?
Kevins_Typist: any mature male, I like them around 36"
bigretic: thanks. weight on the male is less important?
Kevins_Typist: Big fat males can get lazy!
bigretic: lol ok.
bigretic: thanks.
MR_Jungle_Mist: Thanks to everyone that made it out this evening.
MR_Jungle_Mist: We're running out of time.
screamdreams: Rich & Kevin...thank you both very much!! You guys are great!!You 2 Kara!!
Kevins_Typist: Thx Guys!!!!
Rich_Z: Thanks Kevin. It was appreciated..
screamdreams: I'm gonna get you some MP3's of my old speed metal band's stuf, LOL!! You'll dig it...Slayer meets the Knack
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: oh, is the scheduled chat ending? Well thank you guys so much! Rich, Kevin, Kara, MJM and kevins Typist
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: I feel so rude thanking "Kevins typist" come on.......what is your name or on-line handle?
Kevins_Typist can't imagine why else Ms_Terese would have missed this chat....
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: Thanks Ms. Terese, Keven, Rich, MJM and Kara.
Kevins_Typist: Thanks everyone, for coming!
Kevins_Typist: I had a great time!
screamdreams: Us 2!!
HerpLuver: me too for the little bit of time i was here
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: we apreciate the chance for advice from someone who actually has some clue what they are telling us! I'm gonna try the humidity, and dose the babies, and I appreciate the help very much
Cheryl_Marchek_AKA_JM: Thanks so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!
screamdreams: Thankx again Rich!!
screamdreams: You Rock!!
Ken_Harbart: Sorry I missed out on the first hour of it. It's always a pleasure to talk to Kev & Kara
Kevin's Final Thoughts:
Kevins_Typist: and LOVE YOUR CRITTERS!
Kevins_Typist: Teach everyone about your animals!
Kevins_Typist: Make them care!!!! Video games suck!
screamdreams: words to live by for sure!!
Kevins_Typist: Every day there is less of the natural world and more of us and plastic!
Kevins_Typist: I hate the "pave the universe" type mentality!
Jon_Tarutis: that's seems to be phrase of the week Kev
Kevins_Typist: Done!!! Good luck!!
MR_Jungle_Mist: Keep an eye out for more chats to come in the near future.
MR_Jungle_Mist: A copy of this chat log will be posted on FC for all to review
Here are pictures of the Ghost Spider Balls Kevin made mention of:
Picture 1
Picture 2
Picture 3
Picture 4
Chat Log - Kevin McCurley from NERD speaking about Ball Pythons
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