about siklback and their husbandry

I have been holding off writing in the forum because of SOME of the people who write THEIR OPINIONS as if they are facts.

I have personally met Rob and Vicki seen their pristine cages and organization. I have talked with them for many hours. There is ZERO CHANCE they would do anything to jeopardize a dragons health or their 11 year reputation trying to make a quick buck. Those of you who imply in your posts that they will breed the leather back before they are darn sure of what will happen are simply ill informed and do not know their charactor. I have seen, held, and even cleaned the cages and feed their animals. I feel honored that Rob would even trust me to work with his cages. He is simply put very anal about keeping the cages clean, feeding, lighting, temperature and will not even let anyone else form the dirt in the egg laying cages. He is simply in total control and frankly darn good at it. Those of you who can obtain any of his knowledge should consider yourselves very lucky and take great care not to ruin a good thing. Having personal knowledge of how he and Vicki treat the dragons, spend unbelievable hours a day and night caring for them it really makes me angry to have some ungrateful people running their mouths. Their is a respectful way to ask a question without challenging someones honestly and charactor. When an answer is given either accept it or ask a clarifying question with respect. Please non of us are g-d and no one is perfect. Please be respectful of others charactor until you know for sure what you are saying. Thank you for listening.....Richard

Originally Posted by fstop2100a

I have been holding off writing in the forum because of SOME of the people who write THEIR OPINIONS as if they are facts.

I have personally met Rob and Vicki seen their pristine cages and organization. I have talked with them for many hours. There is ZERO CHANCE they would do anything to jeopardize a dragons health or their 11 year reputation trying to make a quick buck. Those of you who imply in your posts that they will breed the leather back before they are darn sure of what will happen are simply ill informed and do not know their charactor. I have seen, held, and even cleaned the cages and feed their animals. I feel honored that Rob would even trust me to work with his cages. He is simply put very anal about keeping the cages clean, feeding, lighting, temperature and will not even let anyone else form the dirt in the egg laying cages. He is simply in total control and frankly darn good at it. Those of you who can obtain any of his knowledge should consider yourselves very lucky and take great care not to ruin a good thing. Having personal knowledge of how he and Vicki treat the dragons, spend unbelievable hours a day and night caring for them it really makes me angry to have some ungrateful people running their mouths. Their is a respectful way to ask a question without challenging someones honestly and charactor. When an answer is given either accept it or ask a clarifying question with respect. Please non of us are g-d and no one is perfect. Please be respectful of others charactor until you know for sure what you are saying. Thank you for listening.....Richard

Great post! I agree that the attacks and blatant challenges made toward the Dachiu's have been utterly ridiculous. It blows my mind how people can make so many assumptions based on absolutely no facts. I have spoken with Vicky and Rob on a couple of occasions, and they seem like very honest, caring people tome.

Jamie

Originally Posted by fstop2100a

I have been holding off writing in the forum because of SOME of the people who write THEIR OPINIONS as if they are facts.

I have personally met Rob and Vicki seen their pristine cages and organization. I have talked with them for many hours. There is ZERO CHANCE they would do anything to jeopardize a dragons health or their 11 year reputation trying to make a quick buck. Those of you who imply in your posts that they will breed the leather back before they are darn sure of what will happen are simply ill informed and do not know their charactor. I have seen, held, and even cleaned the cages and feed their animals. I feel honored that Rob would even trust me to work with his cages. He is simply put very anal about keeping the cages clean, feeding, lighting, temperature and will not even let anyone else form the dirt in the egg laying cages. He is simply in total control and frankly darn good at it. Those of you who can obtain any of his knowledge should consider yourselves very lucky and take great care not to ruin a good thing. Having personal knowledge of how he and Vicki treat the dragons, spend unbelievable hours a day and night caring for them it really makes me angry to have some ungrateful people running their mouths. Their is a respectful way to ask a question without challenging someones honestly and charactor. When an answer is given either accept it or ask a clarifying question with respect. Please non of us are g-d and no one is perfect. Please be respectful of others charactor until you know for sure what you are saying. Thank you for listening.....Richard

Sorry Richard, I have to disagree here. I don't think that anyone is attacking on a personal level because they have concerns about this morph, and believe me when I say I'm waiting patiently to hear the response to the questions I have specifically asked on issues arising from the inability of this morph to correctly uptake Keratin.
Yes, people have strong opinions about it, regardless of the breeders involved. One check on well established boards shows that the upset isn't just here on Fauna and it isn't just restricted to Americans or people who disagree with some of Dachiu's practices. Any issue like this is going to be passionate, and its a discussion that needs to be had.
The passion we've seen here isn't restricted to beardie people, nor is it restricted to only particular breeders. You see this come up anytime someone markets an animal that to a lot of other people would appear to have physical deformities. If you go to the inbreeding thread and look for similar subjects, you find at least 5 others dealing with other species.
While no one is perfect, it could also be said that no one is above criticism either.

Originally Posted by Denisebme

Sorry Richard, I have to disagree here. I don't think that anyone is attacking on a personal level because they have concerns about this morph, and believe me when I say I'm waiting patiently to hear the response to the questions I have specifically asked on issues arising from the inability of this morph to correctly uptake Keratin.
Yes, people have strong opinions about it, regardless of the breeders involved. One check on well established boards shows that the upset isn't just here on Fauna and it isn't just restricted to Americans or people who disagree with some of Dachiu's practices. Any issue like this is going to be passionate, and its a discussion that needs to be had.
The passion we've seen here isn't restricted to beardie people, nor is it restricted to only particular breeders. You see this come up anytime someone markets an animal that to a lot of other people would appear to have physical deformities. If you go to the inbreeding thread and look for similar subjects, you find at least 5 others dealing with other species.
While no one is perfect, it could also be said that no one is above criticism either.

great post

Originally Posted by fstop2100a

I have been holding off writing in the forum because of SOME of the people who write THEIR OPINIONS as if they are facts.

I have personally met Rob and Vicki seen their pristine cages and organization. I have talked with them for many hours. There is ZERO CHANCE they would do anything to jeopardize a dragons health or their 11 year reputation trying to make a quick buck. Those of you who imply in your posts that they will breed the leather back before they are darn sure of what will happen are simply ill informed and do not know their charactor. I have seen, held, and even cleaned the cages and feed their animals. I feel honored that Rob would even trust me to work with his cages. He is simply put very anal about keeping the cages clean, feeding, lighting, temperature and will not even let anyone else form the dirt in the egg laying cages. He is simply in total control and frankly darn good at it. Those of you who can obtain any of his knowledge should consider yourselves very lucky and take great care not to ruin a good thing. Having personal knowledge of how he and Vicki treat the dragons, spend unbelievable hours a day and night caring for them it really makes me angry to have some ungrateful people running their mouths. Their is a respectful way to ask a question without challenging someones honestly and charactor. When an answer is given either accept it or ask a clarifying question with respect. Please non of us are g-d and no one is perfect. Please be respectful of others charactor until you know for sure what you are saying. Thank you for listening.....Richard

I'm glad that your experiences with the Dachius have been so good, but not all of us can say the same. Evidently, you've never been on the receiving end of some of the unethical behavior that some of us have experienced. If you had been, you might understand why it's difficult to "respectfully" ask a question of someone you lost all respect for due to that unethical behavior. That unethical behavior, at least in my opinion, neither showed honesty or a good character.

As for the silkbacks, if the Dachius didn't want to be involved in the controversy that would knowingly surround the mutation, maybe they shouldn't have gotten involved. People aren't lashing out about the Dachius, they're lashing out about the mutation. There really is a difference.

hy eveybody, i have a question. can we please mantain the discussion on the subject of the thread?? i think that things concerning the personal comment on how people act andwhat happened in the past shold be discussed directly within two people or at least should go in another post.
as i want to answer to the question and i would like that this post will clear out all the concerning, i suggest that the posts should be addressed only on care maintenance and breeding of silkback. thank to everybody.

Originally Posted by Denisebme

I'm waiting patiently to hear the response to the questions I have specifically asked on issues arising from the inability of this morph to correctly uptake Keratin.

hy at the moment i think we can give you a suggestion because at the moment i don't see any difference from the other animals. it certainly need more investigation, but we need to wait and see. at the meomnt the only difference is that they achieve the body temp before a "normal" one. for that reason my silkback are the first who start eat in the morning. i haven't seen any deformities nor even a problem with absorbtion of calcium.

hope it will help
alessandro

Hello Alessandro,

Were you going to be updating us each time a clutch hatches out, etc, with progress reports & any types of problems that you are seeing? That is one thing I would like to see, personally.
I would also like to know the timeframe you are looking at as to how quickly they reach their optimal temperature & how long they hold their body temperature as well.
Thank you.
I do agree with previous posts though, if Dachiu doesn't want to be in the limelight, then she can wait & let Alessandro do all of the research & legwork right now, until more is known about the health & longevity of these dragons.

Tracie

Originally Posted by alessandro

hy eveybody, i have a question. can we please mantain the discussion on the subject of the thread?? i think that things concerning the personal comment on how people act andwhat happened in the past shold be discussed directly within two people or at least should go in another post.
as i want to answer to the question and i would like that this post will clear out all the concerning, i suggest that the posts should be addressed only on care maintenance and breeding of silkback. thank to everybody.


hy at the moment i think we can give you a suggestion because at the moment i don't see any difference from the other animals. it certainly need more investigation, but we need to wait and see. at the meomnt the only difference is that they achieve the body temp before a "normal" one. for that reason my silkback are the first who start eat in the morning. i haven't seen any deformities nor even a problem with absorbtion of calcium.

hope it will help
alessandro

Alessandro,
The simple fact that they are missing any form of scale is a huge difference between this morph and a "normal" bearded dragon. Even in a leatherback, the top two layers of the epidermis, the stratum Corneum and the Intermediate Zone are well developed. The fact that so much of the natural epidermis is what would lead someone to use the phrase "deformity" in relation to this morph.
I'm not one of those people who has problems with color morphs, as long as the proper outcrossing is done and the animals health is the top consideration every step of the way.
I'm concerned in this case because their has been a substantial change in the genetic makeup of this animal, and that "break" in the DNA has led to an error which is causing the lack of scale. This type of break is rarely isolated to just one issue.

Dachiu, how many silkbacks do you own in total?

Dachiu wrote:

We own one female Silkback that we imported from Italy in Oct. 2006.

alessandro wrote:

In each cage there is one male OR 2 female. It is for that reason that I cannot keep too many animals and for that reason I shared the project with dachiu.

This statement by alessandro would lead one to think that you have more then just the one female.

Originally Posted by whiskersmom

Dachiu, how many silkbacks do you own in total?

Dachiu wrote:

alessandro wrote:

This statement by alessandro would lead one to think that you have more then just the one female.

A project doesn't only include the visual but also hets.

Alessandro clearly stated what he sent to Vicki.

Originally Posted by alessandro

Then last year we gave some animals to dachiu, to help us with this project, 1 silkback (first generation) and some leath of the third generation (some of the red line and some of the yellow line) and as far as I know the ones ready to breed are/will be crossed with other unrelated animals. They know exactly the genetic situation of the animals and they are working with me to enhance the genetic difference.