wanda sunsethypo@aol.com??

Originally Posted by AustinASU

I've purchased a lot of stuff from them. I bought 5 gulf coast boxies 3wks ago and they are doing great.

Austin,
That's good they're doing great! No one said Wanda sells sick reptiles....

The problem is the so called "HETS" i.e. het for albino, sunset, gold lined sap sucker, etc. That's the problem with Wanda!

Good Luck with your new boxies!

Lynn Peterson
Big Time Reptiles

So, has anyone got a het anything from "Wanda" that did not turn out to be a het?

In the case of the torts, not enough time has passed to breed and prove or disprove the hets.
As far as the snakes, with the purported lies, I would doubt that any hets prove out.

I would not take a chance on buying from her/him, there are many other breeders that are honest.

Originally Posted by Snake-Queen

In the case of the torts, not enough time has passed to breed and prove or disprove the hets.
As far as the snakes, with the purported lies, I would doubt that any hets prove out.

I would not take a chance on buying from her/him, there are many other breeders that are honest.

There are adult "hets" at this point for the supposed "sunset hypo morph" that are large enough to breed (and then some). However, the ones I am aware of have yet to produce any "sunset hypo" offspring. Many of the so-called "hets" are very nice leopard tortoises, but that is all (so far).

The snapping turtles do not take as long to mature if kept warm and fed well, so those should have proved out by now if legit, too.

I still have a couple animals I have to handle the guarantee on in case Patterson has misrepresented those animals as well. If the current owner proves them out as they should, then all will be well. If they do not prove out, that will make three types of bogus chelonian morph hets surrounding one person/family and that would be unfortunate. I will cover the owner of those animals, but that possibility should not even be a concern (yet it is). The thing that I find most worrisome/telling about this last set of animals is something Mitch mentioned earlier in the thread regarding the albino snapping turtle issue. Almost the same scenario, but with another morph in another species.

So basically what you are both saying at this point is pure speculation on your behalf and your own opinions based on nothing other than a discrepancy of name use? So, are you saying that "Wanda" sells hets that are not actually het without a single shred of evidence to back it up? Interesting.

No one has bought anything from "Wanda" at this point that has NOT proven out. Is that correct? No one has had a complaint about the quality of "Wandas" animals. Is this also correct?

Originally Posted by nickolasanastasiou

There are adult "hets" at this point for the supposed "sunset hypo morph" that are large enough to breed (and then some). However, the ones I am aware of have yet to produce any "sunset hypo" offspring. Many of the so-called "hets" are very nice leopard tortoises, but that is all (so far).

Have the ones you "know of" produced any offspring at all yet?

QUOTE=nickolasanastasiou;1786938]The snapping turtles do not take as long to mature if kept warm and fed well, so those should have proved out by now if legit, too.[/quote]

Those may be large enough to breed IF they were being kept by you. However, these are not in your collection so there is no possible way you can determine that the snapping turtles are capable of breeding or proving out or if the owners are even attempting to breed them.

QUOTE=nickolasanastasiou;1786938]I still have a couple animals I have to handle the guarantee on in case Patterson has misrepresented those animals as well. If the current owner proves them out as they should, then all will be well. If they do not prove out, that will make three types of bogus chelonian morph hets surrounding one person/family and that would be unfortunate. I will cover the owner of those animals, but that possibility should not even be a concern (yet it is).[/quote]

That is all irrelevant at this point, is it not?
And when dealing with het to het breedings and even het to visual breedings, one, two, or even 3 clutches are not enough to disprove them being hets. I bred a pair of double het axanthic/albino hognose snakes. I produced all normal the first 4 clutches. Over 40 eggs and not one albino, axanthic, or snow.

QUOTE=nickolasanastasiou;1786938]The thing that I find most worrisome/telling about this last set of animals is something Mitch mentioned earlier in the thread regarding the albino snapping turtle issue. Almost the same scenario, but with another morph in another species.[/quote]

Yeah, I seen something mentioned but not substantiated. There is no actual proof of these accusations. Sound familiar?

So basically what you are both saying at this point is pure speculation on your behalf and your own opinions based on nothing other than a discrepancy of name use? So, are you saying that "Wanda" sells hets that are not actually het without a single shred of evidence to back it up? Interesting.

No one has bought anything from "Wanda" at this point that has NOT proven out. Is that correct? No one has had a complaint about the quality of "Wandas" animals. Is this also correct?

Perhaps you should read the other thread. Maybe twice. Or get somebody to read it for you if you require assistance. In order: No, no, no, and no, but I will let other weigh in if they want to with regard to their own dealings as I do not want to speak for them if they do not want to.

Have the ones you "know of" produced any offspring at all yet?

Why the quotation marks? I wrote what I wrote specifically. No more and no less.

Those may be large enough to breed IF they were being kept by you. However, these are not in your collection so there is no possible way you can determine that the snapping turtles are capable of breeding or proving out or if the owners are even attempting to breed them.

Of course. People buy hets not to breed them, but instead to not breed them. Right.

That is all irrelevant at this point, is it not?
And when dealing with het to het breedings and even het to visual breedings, one, two, or even 3 clutches are not enough to disprove them being hets. I bred a pair of double het axanthic/albino hognose snakes. I produced all normal the first 4 clutches. Over 40 eggs and not one albino, axanthic, or snow.

No, it is not irrelevant, as it fits the MO for the snapper "hets" and so I must cover my customer when there is doubt under the circumstances.

Gregg, statistically speaking, NO amount of clutches can disprove hets. Disproving it is not possible. You could have a thousand clutches with no homozygous recessive offspring and that would not remove the very, very slight statistical possibility that one has just had a thousand-clutch-long string of particular luck. Be my guest, though, to try for a great, great many clutches.

Yeah, I seen something mentioned but not substantiated. There is no actual proof of these accusations. Sound familiar?

I am waiting to see if anything new evolves. Beyond what I have already presented elsewhere, I keep some things in my back pocket for when the timing becomes more fitting.

---------------------------------------

Gregg, feel free to prove the extent of your convictions by purchasing "hets" for chelonian projects from Jody Patterson. Especially after reading the other thread and the practices highlighted therein. Be a champion of justice, man. Be a hero. Show me. Show us all. Show the world.

Really, though, I am pretty sure this is you trying to lash out after the thread about Dan Krull and your campaign. I do not have possession of someone else's animals without them wanting that to be the case, so I am unable to relate to a certain type of perspective.

The person uses photo shopped pictures of non morph turtles/tortoises to make them appear like morphs and sells "hets" of said photo shopped morphs. That is the "proof" they are using. for the "sunset hypo" morph Nick showed pictures of the photo shopped adults they had and then the non photo shopped pictures. The same goes the the "albino" snappers. They sent me pictures of an adult hypo with photo shopped red eyes on a turtle that was not breeder sized and said it was there breeder male Chucky who hatched all the hets from.

All the evidence is of the photo shopped pictures of the so called morphs that are the breeders. Also the fact they have never offered/sold any of the so called morphs that they should have produced themselves for years now. Also with the albino snapping turtles, they always started the "het" sales with offering albinos and "hets" to get more people interested and quickly would edit the add saying the albinos sold out and only "hets" left. But to this day have never met anyone who has purchased an albino from them.

Mitch, my impression is that he is not really interested. I suspect he merely desires an opportunity for what I believe he considers to be recreational activity.

On the other hand, I do appreciate your input.

Originally Posted by nickolasanastasiou

Really, though, I am pretty sure this is you trying to lash out after the thread about Dan Krull and your campaign.

Have to admit that, right or wrong, this is the impression that I had.

BTW I read the other thread, etc., awhile ago, and there is no way I would purchase an alleged 100% het (if I needed/wanted that het) from Wanda.

Originally Posted by nickolasanastasiou

Perhaps you should read the other thread. Maybe twice. Or get somebody to read it for you if you require assistance. In order: No, no, no, and no, but I will let other weigh in if they want to with regard to their own dealings as I do not want to speak for them if they do not want to.

Nick,
I did read the other thread. There is still no proof of ant of your accusations as far as the legitimacy of the morph. I did see the video and it does appear to be legit. Not even you can really refute the vid.

Originally Posted by nickolasanastasiou

Why the quotation marks? I wrote what I wrote specifically. No more and no less.

A simple answer to the question would due just fine. Did any of the hets that you know of produce any offspring at all? Normal or otherwise.

Originally Posted by nickolasanastasiou

Of course. People buy hets not to breed them, but instead to not breed them. Right.

Yeah, they do. I have several het animals in my collection that I have not bred yet for a variety of reasons. Will they eventually be bred? Maybe, maybe not. Did you invest in the sunset hypos?

Originally Posted by nickolasanastasiou

No, it is not irrelevant, as it fits the MO for the snapper "hets" and so I must cover my customer when there is doubt under the circumstances.

Is there any proof thet the snapper thing was a scam?

Originally Posted by nickolasanastasiou

Gregg, statistically speaking, NO amount of clutches can disprove hets. Disproving it is not possible. You could have a thousand clutches with no homozygous recessive offspring and that would not remove the very, very slight statistical possibility that one has just had a thousand-clutch-long string of particular luck. Be my guest, though, to try for a great, great many clutches.

Actually, STATICALLY speaking, you should see 1 visual out of 4 eggs from a het to het pairing.

Originally Posted by nickolasanastasiou

I am waiting to see if anything new evolves. Beyond what I have already presented elsewhere, I keep some things in my back pocket for when the timing becomes more fitting.

So you are actually waiting for evidence to support your accusations?

Originally Posted by nickolasanastasiou

Gregg, feel free to prove the extent of your convictions by purchasing "hets" for chelonian projects from Jody Patterson. Especially after reading the other thread and the practices highlighted therein. Be a champion of justice, man. Be a hero. Show me. Show us all. Show the world.

Not my job.

Originally Posted by nickolasanastasiou

Really, though, I am pretty sure this is you trying to lash out after the thread about Dan Krull and your campaign. I do not have possession of someone else's animals without them wanting that to be the case, so I am unable to relate to a certain type of perspective.

I am not lashing out but it is pretty ironic though. LOL

Originally Posted by Mac's Morphs

The person uses photo shopped pictures of non morph turtles/tortoises to make them appear like morphs and sells "hets" of said photo shopped morphs. That is the "proof" they are using. for the "sunset hypo" morph Nick showed pictures of the photo shopped adults they had and then the non photo shopped pictures. The same goes the the "albino" snappers. They sent me pictures of an adult hypo with photo shopped red eyes on a turtle that was not breeder sized and said it was there breeder male Chucky who hatched all the hets from.

Where were the photos that showed they were photo shopped? I missed that. Can you pony up any proof that they sent you a photo of a hypo snapping turtle with photo shopped eyes?

Originally Posted by Mac's Morphs

All the evidence is of the photo shopped pictures of the so called morphs that are the breeders. Also the fact they have never offered/sold any of the so called morphs that they should have produced themselves for years now. Also with the albino snapping turtles, they always started the "het" sales with offering albinos and "hets" to get more people interested and quickly would edit the add saying the albinos sold out and only "hets" left. But to this day have never met anyone who has purchased an albino from them.

How is what you think may or may not be photo shopped proof of anything?
Have you ever met anyone who bought hets from them and bred them without producing albinos?

Originally Posted by nickolasanastasiou

Mitch, my impression is that he is not really interested. I suspect he merely desires an opportunity for what I believe he considers to be recreational activity.

On the other hand, I do appreciate your input.

See, I do have an interest. Not in the tort part particularly. I have an interest because this person also sells hognose morphs. A species which I specialize in. I have my doubts about this person as well. I am trying to see if what I think is correct. Believe me, I am not against you in this. You guys taught me a valuable lesson about the BOI. Put up solid evidence or keep quiet. Well, it seems your evidence is falling short of solid. That's all I am pointing out here.