"Diluting" BOI threads?

Originally Posted by ThomasHicks

Again, take the Wise thread for example, from the first post you really know enough to know not to deal with them. The extra drivel really isn't necessary, it's just obnoxious.

TBH

Normally I wouldn't bother posting in a thread like this. It's the Feedback Forum. People generally use it correctly (whether I agree with their ideas or not) and post ideas, constructive criticism, questions, etc. I feel Rich and the Mods do a good job addressing these threads and don't need me throwing my two cents in to muddy the waters.

I agree there are AMPLE amounts of BOI threads that are either nonsense from the jumpstart (ex: I paid for a snake last night and I don't have shipping confirmation yet so Seller X is a bad guy) or are filled with pointless posts (ex: can someone give me a synopsis of what this thread is about - I don't feel like reading it).

However, I'm getting a little peeved seeing the "Wise Thread" set up as an example as a thread filled with extra "drivel". The people who donated items/won auctions provided a list of items and amounts. The "super sleuthing" came from folks like Dennis STILL working on tracking them down, Brian's discovery of the fake checks, people posting updates that they have spread the word to x, y and z websites, DAND and Kevin compiling all of the evidence together in one giant package, people finding phone numbers, Facebook pages, etc., etc., etc. who may or may not have ever had a dog in the fight. Did they provide "drivel". And would a widow and mother to small children who just lost their Daddy consider the countless posts expressing sympathy and heartbreak for her family's loss "not necessary" and "obnoxious"?

Yeah, 60 pages is a LOT of posts. A lot of posts that show Maggie how much Fauna cares. How much Chuck will be missed. How much Chuck was loved (and how even his "forum enemies" are human and are so sorry he won't be here again). 60 pages of anything but drivel.

Sorry for the rant. It takes a lot to get to me, but this one obviously did it

Originally Posted by Double LY

However, I'm getting a little peeved seeing the "Wise Thread" set up as an example as a thread filled with extra "drivel". The people who donated items/won auctions provided a list of items and amounts. The "super sleuthing" came from folks like Dennis STILL working on tracking them down, Brian's discovery of the fake checks, people posting updates that they have spread the word to x, y and z websites, DAND and Kevin compiling all of the evidence together in one giant package, people finding phone numbers, Facebook pages, etc., etc., etc. who may or may not have ever had a dog in the fight. Did they provide "drivel". And would a widow and mother to small children who just lost their Daddy consider the countless posts expressing sympathy and heartbreak for her family's loss "not necessary" and "obnoxious"?

Yeah, 60 pages is a LOT of posts. A lot of posts that show Maggie how much Fauna cares. How much Chuck will be missed. How much Chuck was loved (and how even his "forum enemies" are human and are so sorry he won't be here again). 60 pages of anything but drivel.

Sorry for the rant. It takes a lot to get to me, but this one obviously did it

I never disagreed with the premise of the thread, I'm just pointing out it's full of stuff that makes it virtually unreadable.

Like honestly, how many posts on that thread looks like this? -

Originally Posted by crissabella

There is nothing that they can say that will even come close to rectifying this horrible situation. Anything that will come out of their mouths will be for naught. Nothing they do or say will help ease the betrayal felt by Maggie, her kids, Rick, and everyone on Fauna that believed they were contributing to help those families in need during those families darkest hours.

Is this really necessary as a chronic re-post? Do you think that's helping the intentions of the thread? To raise awareness/seek justice.

Originally Posted by StrictlyExotics

Polasian Studio does GREAT work. When Christina offered to design a site like BR for me... I decided to talk to the source to get mine done. I didnt want a WiseGuy website. I really hope some people on Fauna understand me a little more about why I have been the way I have the last couple of months now.

*Sigh* I could go on all day...

It's gotten so bad that I don't even know the premise of the thread or where it went after well over 30 minutes of looking at it. Is that really good for the thread?

I honestly think we're on the same side here.

TBH

There is a flaw in your comparison of AB to the BOI. I read through some of the threads on the first page of AB and if I am not mistaken every single one of those threads is a positive review. There may be a few negative posts hidden in some of the longer threads (which might be the reason they are longer) but all started with a positive post. Positive posts and threads have a tendency to be much much much shorter (how many multiple page good guy threads are there on BOI compared to bad guy threads). Negative posts tend to be longer because you have conflict an disagreement. You have people defending others and people who just love the drama and can't resist being a part of it. I don't know if they feel partially responsible for outing a bad guy if they post in the thread or not but for whatever reason some people feel compelled to participate. I wonder if they would even allow you to post a "John Smith ripped me off" type thread on AB.

IMO, in 99% of the bad guy threads on the BOI everything you need to make an informed decision can be found within the first page and I have hardly, if ever, found it any more enlightening to read beyond the second page. I have read beyond the second page for entertainment purposes but I don't think I have ever discovered any additional information that has changed my mind. I have on occasion found additional information that has cemented my opinions but nothing that has changed it. If you are reading beyond 2 pages of any BOI thread it is because you want to and not because you need to.

Actually that is not entirely true. There have been threads that have gone on for a couple of pages before the opposite party has a chance to post their side to the story. In those cases it may take a few extra pages to get the facts but within 2 pages of both sides of the story being presented you should be able to make up your mind.

I understand what you are saying but as Rich pointed out editing is not possible (nor is it desirable) Putting an arbitrary cut of is not practical either because first where do you put it? And, second, though I find it highly suspect something truly eye opening would have shown up on the very next post would happen after several pages, it can happen and for that reason alone leaving the threads open indefinitely has validity.

I should also point out that for probably half of the BOI bad guy threads I wind up crossing both parties off my list of people to deal with or adding someone else who just can't resist chiming in with some insightful information (usually defending one of the parties) so in that case lengthy threads can be of benefit.

The bottom line is nothing is going to change (and I'm not saying it needs to change) unless the people doing the posting change and lets face it, that is not going to happen because people are how they are. They think they are being helpful and that makes them feel important. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't but you won't be able to convince them of that.

Originally Posted by sschind

There is a flaw in your comparison of AB to the BOI. I read through some of the threads on the first page of AB and if I am not mistaken every single one of those threads is a positive review. There may be a few negative posts hidden in some of the longer threads (which might be the reason they are longer) but all started with a positive post. Positive posts and threads have a tendency to be much much much shorter (how many multiple page good guy threads are there on BOI compared to bad guy threads).

Well, that's the thing, on AB.com only people related to the transaction post, therefore negative threads sink to the bottom because there's no drama, positives are more common so those threads go up to the top. Also, it's worth noting if not already obvious that the arachnid community is much smaller, therefore less suppliers and less people to be screwed, I was just pointing that out as an efficient format. And it doesn't read Negative ______, honestly, the title is probably half the reason some of these threads attain the size they do.

You have people defending others and people who just love the drama and can't resist being a part of it.

The latter is the main reason I offered the suggestion actually.

IMO, in 99% of the bad guy threads on the BOI everything you need to make an informed decision can be found within the first page and I have hardly, if ever, found it any more enlightening to read beyond the second page. I have read beyond the second page for entertainment purposes but I don't think I have ever discovered any additional information that has changed my mind. I have on occasion found additional information that has cemented my opinions but nothing that has changed it. If you are reading beyond 2 pages of any BOI thread it is because you want to and not because you need to.

I've noted similar, however it's not always that simple and I always feel somethings going to happen to change my applied status of one or both parties. If a thread keeps going on, I feel like there's something else to be heard, sometimes there is, other times not so much, you never really know.

I understand what you are saying but as Rich pointed out editing is not possible (nor is it desirable) Putting an arbitrary cut of is not practical either because first where do you put it? And, second, though I find it highly suspect something truly eye opening would have shown up on the very next post would happen after several pages, it can happen and for that reason alone leaving the threads open indefinitely has validity.

Well, yes, quite a conundrum... I have my own opinions on the matter but that doesn't matter. I was simply pointing out that it's difficult.

I should also point out that for probably half of the BOI bad guy threads I wind up crossing both parties off my list of people to deal with or adding someone else who just can't resist chiming in with some insightful information (usually defending one of the parties) so in that case lengthy threads can be of benefit.

The bottom line is nothing is going to change (and I'm not saying it needs to change) unless the people doing the posting change and lets face it, that is not going to happen because people are how they are. They think they are being helpful and that makes them feel important. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't but you won't be able to convince them of that.

Fair enough. Just offering my opinion and the thread has been fulfilled I suppose.

TBH

A vast majority of the threads you feel go on too long do so because they are not settled or because finding a resolution is just not happening. Few of them end within the first one or two pages.

When dealing with any situation of customer service, you always have two sides: the customer and the retailer. While anyone who has been in services long enough will tell you, nine times out of ten, a customer should get what they want to maintain the reputation of a business, not everyone thinks this way. With the wonders of the internet, it is very easy to distance ourselves from humanity and think nothing of the person on the other side of the screen. Likewise, many people in this business see animals as a means of profit and little else. This can cause obvious problems.

When you have a person with little to no moral ethics or you have a person who despises being wrong, you get a retailer who is stubborn, selfish and unrelenting on their ToS or some other ideal that keeps them from taking responsibility for what happened (this can happen with customers too, I am just using the most common situation as an example). What generally happens here is the retailer just will not listen to the customer anymore. They will ignore them and silently tell them to go ****** themselves because they are never going to give in on what should be done.

Enter the BOI.

Many people wait months to come to the BOI because they have exhausted every other outlet or have simply just run out of patience when it comes to dealing with such a person. Now, obviously, most of the time, the retailer will just ignore them again. However, when individuals who are not involved in the transaction become involved, that tends to strike a nerve. Why? Because then there are potential customers they no longer have. That is problematic in a world that has gotten considerably smaller thanks to the speed by which information is now spread. One horrible transaction can ruin someone online. I have seen it happen and it is likely to continue to happen.

Still, a lot of these threads reach a resolution thanks to the tenacity of the community and thanks to the people who have no personal stake taking time out of their day to help the person looking for assistance by coming to the BOI.

Just because people who were not wronged get involved in a situation to help does not always mean they are looking for drama. There was a time, once, or so I was told, when people helped people just for the sake of doing it. That's what I do: help when I see they have been wronged, even if I may not really like that individual. That's exactly what the BOI is for and it shows how close this community can be as a whole.

Is it a perfect system? No. Is anything? No. The variable of human interaction will always make that impossible. But it works well enough and for every negative feeling their is towards the BOI, I can almost guarantee there are two positives, if not more towards the BOI. The way it is may be flawed in some ways, but it works.

Originally Posted by ThomasHicks

Well, most sites I frequent with reviews sections only allow people directly affiliated with the transaction to post, and they read smooth as butter. It's not helping anyone to see people saying things like "post more proof", "I think you should [/shouldn't] get a refund", etc.

Take AB.com for example, read a couple of threads and tell me it doesn't read easier - http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/forumdisplay.php?f=9. The point gets across just as well, if not better actually and it doesn't take 2% as long to read. Just a quick "positive" or "negative" and the reasoning. And if anyone has a negative review to be given, just search "negative" on the thread and viola! A quick 2 second search and you know no one's reported being screwed over by that person.

Again, take the Wise thread for example, from the first post you really know enough to know not to deal with them. The extra drivel really isn't necessary, it's just obnoxious.

TBH

Well, you see there are many times that the good people over on arachno boards send people here to discuss things when it doesn't fit in with what they want on their site. There are many members here that are in good standing with both sites. Not every site is established with the same criteria and goal in mind. The Board of Inquiry was set up to handle these specific topics. The rest of Fauna Classifieds, forums, classifieds, have all grown up around the BOI. Not the other way around. This site was a feedback specific site for years. It took many more years to drive traffic in the forums and much longer to get the classifieds of the ground. So, yes many sites do offer review sections on their sites but none were built on that feedback section like Fauna was. It was the first in this industry to offer a wide buyer and seller review when many sites wouldn't dare let you post something negative about a person or business online. Many still don't. Many of those sites send people here to utilize this function. Even sites with their own review section send people here for this resource. Even sites and people that have problems with the BOI or Rich turn to Fauna to get the word out when they have been burnt. They know it will get the attention here to resolve or inform the industry of what has transpired.

Rich started the original BOI many years ago because of a bad transaction he had. There was absolutely no where for him to get his information out to people at the time.

I've seen much happen over the years here. I've seen how that "drivel" has done so much more for people than a simple review section could have ever done with nobody being able to probe. Yes, some drivel can be annoying, sometimes way off-topic but I would rather have it than not. What is drivel to one may be something productive and helpful to another. I guarantee because of what you may think as drivel, may have saved someone from making mistakes, helped recovered animals or funds. Picking what "drivel" could be allowed would be a hard task unless it is so far off the topic.

Also noting your examples-

Originally Posted by ThomasHicks

Is this really necessary as a chronic re-post? Do you think that's helping the intentions of the thread? To raise awareness/seek justice.

While it may do nothing to directly solve an issue, remember who the thread is about. It may just be "drivel" to you and many but I doubt it is so to Maggie. While you may have problems seeing those types of posts from multiple people it does serve some purpose. I'm sure Maggie appreciates it but it also keeps the thread in line of sight for those viewing the BOI. People do take notice when a BOI thread starts taking off. They want to see what people are so interested in.

You can limit yourself strictly to the "smooth as butter" reviews on the other sites

TBH

Oh yes, but where? Correct me if I'm wrong but were you not banned from the specific forum you are stating is better? That may seem like "drivel" to this thread but it could lead to significant point.

Also, I have been very busy and not able to be here that much as of late but I have read all 2,392 posts on that thread. The topic is of much interest and importance to me as it is to others. If nothing has a conclusion on that thread in the next year to come, I hope to see people keeping it in the forefront even if it means another 2,000 posts. Hopefully, it will be contributing posts to the topic but I take a little "drivel" too.

Originally Posted by Dennis Hultman

[color="Navy"]
Well, you see there are many times that the good people over on arachno boards send people here to discuss things when it doesn't fit in with what they want on their site. There are many members here that are in good standing with both sites. Not every site is established with the same criteria and goal in mind. The Board of Inquiry was set up to handle these specific topics. The rest of Fauna Classifieds, forums, classifieds, have all grown up around the BOI. Not the other way around. This site was a feedback specific site for years. It took many more years to drive traffic in the forums and much longer to get the classifieds of the ground. So, yes many sites do offer review sections on their sites but none were built on that feedback section like Fauna was. It was the first in this industry to offer a wide buyer and seller review when many sites wouldn't dare let you post something negative about a person or business online. Many still don't. Many of those sites send people here to utilize this function. Even sites with their own review section send people here for this resource. Even sites and people that have problems with the BOI or Rich turn to Fauna to get the word out when they have been burnt. They know it will get the attention here to resolve or inform the industry of what has transpired.

Rich started the original BOI many years ago because of a bad transaction he had. There was absolutely no where for him to get his information out to people at the time.

While that is historically impressive, I'm not disagree with the overall fuctionality of being able to post positive/negative reviews.

I've seen much happen over the years here. I've seen how that "drivel" has done so much more for people than a simple review section could have ever done with nobody being able to probe. Yes, some drivel can be annoying, sometimes way off-topic but I would rather have it than not. What is drivel to one may be something productive and helpful to another. I guarantee because of what you may think as drivel, may have saved someone from making mistakes, helped recovered animals or funds. Picking what "drivel" could be allowed would be a hard task unless it is so far off the topic.

I'm not sure you're necessarily defining "drivel" in the same way that I am. I don't get how it could possibly be helpful to say "post more proof" and then argue over whether it's necessary. Or asking for a summary because they don't get what happened because the thread's too large and confusing to process, making it longer and more confusing.

[quote]
While it may do nothing to directly solve an issue, remember who the thread is about. It may just be "drivel" to you and many but I doubt it is so to Maggie. While you may have problems seeing those types of posts from multiple people it does serve some purpose. I'm sure Maggie appreciates it but it also keeps the thread in line of sight for those viewing the BOI. People do take notice when a BOI thread starts taking off. They want to see what people are so interested in.

Don't take this as insensitivity, but do you honestly think she's even read half of it? Being a single parent and trying to read a 2,000+ post thread? What water does the post even hold given the drama that unfolded with the woman I quoted? I'm just trying to be helpful here, they're trying to submit the thread to local media, prosecuters, people who know them, etc. But won't those people actually want to... you know? read it? And how is that even possible any more? Just my .02, trying to be productive and all.

Oh yes, but where? Correct me if I'm wrong but were you not banned from the specific forum you are stating is better? That may seem like "drivel" but it could lead to significant point.

As I said before and I'll say again, that was just an example of format. My status as a member on that site isn't relevant in the least. The forums I'm stating that have better review sections have absolutely nothing to do with inhuman lifeforms of any sorts.

TBH

Originally Posted by dustinntech

I completely agree that the BOI is horribly diluted! In my opinion (and I believe everyone is entitled to their own and I'm not bashing on others opinions) the threads should only have posts by people who are directly involved with the topic of the BOI...

Do you realize how much crap I dug up on the Wise's... and I wasnt involved. Some of my stuff spurred ideas for others and they were able to dig up even more.

How many times has someone not involved asked a question... and the bad guy answered untruthfully and then was later caught because of the question that was asked.

Your idea would kill the usefullness of the BOI.

Originally Posted by ThomasHicks

Again, take the Wise thread for example, from the first post you really know enough to know not to deal with them. The extra drivel really isn't necessary, it's just obnoxious.

TBH

Are you kidding me... there is a wealth of evidence agains the Wises thruout that whole thread. With your way of thinking... we'd never know about Christina trying to steal the money back from Maggie and using a PayPal complaint to do it.

What about the baby scams she was pulling on the preggo site.....

All of this would not have been brought forward with your way of doing things.

What about their NEW LOCATION in IN now.... guess that is extra drivel and just obnoxious as well.