The Baby Turtle Law

Originally Posted by hhmoore

The law went into effect in - I think it was - 1975. Yes, the issue was salmonella; and the size was chosen because small turtles are more likely to be handled, and kids did put babies turtles in their mouths (kids are weird like that). It wasn't a matter of "a few" cases of salmonella, though - there were an estimated 250,000 cases of salmonella associated with baby turtles in the US.

They were like the hermit crab phase kids had a few years back. Everyone I knew had one of those sliders in this. At least for the couple weeks, month, before it died. Then picked up another for $2

Yup....in many cases you could buy the "lagoon", and get the turtle for free.
I can still remember being a kid and seeing them as prizes at the county fair...in fact, the one year I went planning on winning one; I was pretty bummed that there werent any to be found. They were replaced by goldfish...and I went home with a couple of those, instead.

even via online order from BREEDERS, i've most often had to sign a PDF form and email/fax it back before the morph hatchlings could be released

i've never seen a pet shop offer small turtles - not on the west coast, not in florida, not in boston either. heck, not even in chinatowns of sf, la nor nyc!

however, i've lived in big, affluent cities across USA most the time, which i can imagine are more heavily policed by city officials than say, little towns?

what i have seem many times, is undecover INSPECTORS walk into pet shops and ask he petshop staff if they were 'interested in buying turtles hat they (UC inspector) found in their backyard'. how do i know they are undercover? because most wear a lanyard which though usually tucked in under their shirt/coat, bears an official city badge.

i've also seen UC's ask the store clerk if they have any baby turtles in the 'back' or if they can get one on special order for an educational school project.

the latter which perplexes me because if the petshop sells with a signed by buyer affidavit that the small turtle was ordered for and intended for educational/institutional use, and is aware of salmonella dangers, isn't that legit?

then again, USA is increasingly a POLICE STATE so i wouldnt be surprised that even if a petshop requires a signed affidavit, just having small turtles on their premises should be enough to fine them for breaking the salmonella law.

Kyle, the biggest loophole is for educational purposes. Which many teachers and "others" use to acquire their own little turtles from stores, dealers and shows.

Originally Posted by neilg

i've never seen a pet shop offer small turtles - not on the west coast, not in florida, not in boston either. heck, not even in chinatowns of sf, la nor nyc!

I have in every scenario you listed, Minus NYC. Haven't been there. Matter of fact, there are plenty in Chinatown in LA as of a couple of weeks ago.

The "educational" loophole can still cause issues if it is pursued/investigated; requiring documentation of "bona fide" educational usage. (the silly forms that some dealers/retailers use are just a lame CYA, and not worth the paper they're written on when push comes to shove)

Personally I can name a few shops who sell them. I won't say names incase I'm technically ratting them out. I think this law brings up controversy and at my shop I rather not sell turtles then deal with this crap lol. I've been buying turtles for around 5 years and have had some hatchlings (I raised them before selling them) and never once signed a document for anything. Maybe I'm dealing with the wrong companies xD

I once overheard a vendor at a reptile show tell a rude customer that if her kid was stupid enough to put a 3" turtle in his mouth he was probably stupid enough to lick the butt of a 10" one.
I think we are selectively breeding the common sense out of our children with some of the excessive child safety measures.

on the other hand, variety stores, and street vendors in front of them on main st new york's chinatown, and los angeles chinatown often peddle lotsa hatchling res for $5/each

pet shops selling baby turtles/torts? have yet to ever seen every one and would be surprised since its one of the top violations plain clothes inspectors scour the cities' pet shops for.

Originally Posted by gila7150

I once overheard a vendor at a reptile show tell a rude customer that if her kid was stupid enough to put a 3" turtle in his mouth he was probably stupid enough to lick the butt of a 10" one.
I think we are selectively breeding the common sense out of our children with some of the excessive child safety measures.

I love that vendor's sense of humor. I definitely agree with him lol.