BallBids.com?

Originally Posted by Will0W783

Apparently they didn't actually choose a winner last night. So the poor guy who thought he'd won now is out a snake. They are stating on their Facebook page that not only are they relisting the female butter from yesterday but they are also listing another morph. I did get recredited my free bids, but it's really crappy that someone thought they had won a snake and actually didn't.

Just my opinion, I think the idea flopped on them yesterday with the rise of all these threads. I imagine not many people are confident in this process and from what I have gathered, most people that are bidding are using free bids. In return, the auction wasn't getting high enough to make money and no one was bidding with actual cash. This would have resulted in a loss on their part, thus the "crash." I personally would not deal with a business that is willing to reap the benefits of the losses of so many people, while not taking one on their own. Had they followed through with yesterday's auction, they probably would have had an accurate sale price on their fraudulent ad.

This idea could more than work. It is Quibids to a T.

The problem here is lying to begin with, having a total joke of a TOS, and having one of a two man crew who knows nothing about the species itself.

If this was someone legit...AND you like to gamble, this would be a great service.
Unfortunately for these gentleman, they blew it before it ever started.

Originally Posted by Will0W783

Apparently they didn't actually choose a winner last night. So the poor guy who thought he'd won now is out a snake.

That is outrageous.

I SO wish he would show up here, so we could collectively give him ideas on how to respond and who to go to. Besides the AG, there are plenty of others who oversee and regulate auctions and business, and I'd make SURE all of them heard the names of Ballbids and the two guys running it.

For any of y'all that have anything to do with reptile publications, radio, etc., I think that it would be worthwhile to do a story about penny auctions in general and this one in particular.

@Ace of Snakes, you'll need to go use your original account

My "opinion" may not fit in with the popular voice here...and I am not necessarily saying that I am supporting these guys (especially since I admittedly am out of the loop with people's prior experiences with one of the site's "admin"). And I hope you all remember my thoughts and feelings toward others who have been purposeful "market crashers" as such, i.e. MKR, and keep those in mind.

I really don't believe these guys started all of this with any intention of "scamming" anyone. I think they did indeed see money to be made, and rushed into many aspects of what they are doing, without enough thought into the ins and outs (and emotions) involved when you are dealing with living, breathing animals. They followed the model of these other "penny auctions" to a T, thinking that they had all of their bases covered...which obviously they didn't. And the herp community is certainly letting them know this. I think they got in over their heads, not expecting everything (good and bad) to blow up so quickly.

They appear to be trying to make it all right...they are amending their TOS, refunding bids, calmly answering posts, etc...that's more than many a "scammer" outed here has done. Were they truly out to simply scam folks, I don't think they would be making such an effort.

I DO think that they are reducing these live animals much more to simple dollars and cents and purely a business venture than most people like, however...and this is where all of the emotion and accusations are coming from. Of course, the quarantine and shipping concerns are still VERY valid concerns....again, something I don't think these guys thought through nearly enough. If they are going to continue, we can all hope that they get it sorted out...perhaps we could collectively offer them advice on the best way to go about this instead of just yelling at them about not doing it properly?

To reiterate, I am NOT saying that I really agree with this whole idea...but I don't think they are out to "scam" anyone (at least not any more than ANY of the "penny auctions")...and I feel in this day and age it was bound to happen eventually. Where there are high dollar ANYTHINGs, someone is going to see it and act on it. I am not by any means suggesting that everyone should accept and support it all, but perhaps by offering some constructive criticism as to how to make it better for the ANIMALS...we could ALL feel a little better about it.

Of course, I could be totally wrong...which has been known to happen (I bought from TSE back in the day lol)...in which case I will gladly eat the crow that I am sure will be happily served to me, in multiple portions.

I didn't think that they were out to scam anyone either, but with the auction not actually completing yesterday, I'm not sure what to think. Regardless of the problems on their end, they should have given the "winner" his or her snake. The fact that they didn't and are relisting her (supposedly) makes me really uneasy.

Originally Posted by Will0W783

I didn't think that they were out to scam anyone either, but with the auction not actually completing yesterday, I'm not sure what to think. Regardless of the problems on their end, they should have given the "winner" his or her snake. The fact that they didn't and are relisting her (supposedly) makes me really uneasy.

Yeah, I can see your point there. Admittedly, I have little knowledge of servers and all of that techno stuff...I wonder if indeed they CAN know exactly who won it if the server totally crashed? And I also question, if the server crashed BEFORE the time the auction was to actually end, would it be fair to others who would have still been bidding had they been able to...is it fair to them to simply call the last person who was able to get in a bid the winner?

I do think that, as long as they are actually refunding all of the bids as they say, that relisting her was probably the most "fair" option to all...who were bidding.

Originally Posted by Cat_72

perhaps by offering some constructive criticism as to how to make it better for the ANIMALS...we could ALL feel a little better about it.

I think that's part of the reason many people are upset. They could have asked the community for advice about this before they even started. I'm getting mixed up between all the threads on all the forums, but somewhere someone linked a thread where the site owner was given advice on his husbandry and flipped out. I, honestly, would not offer advice since they don't appear receptive.

Members have given them advice on their TOS. Unchanged.

Members have given them advice on the phony ad. Unchanged.

I'm sorry I'm not trying to pick at you but I was thinking the same way when this started and not others, but these two guys themselves changed my opinion based on what they have posted. They are responding nicely, but we are getting politicians answer to these questions that are vague and contradictory to what is taking place.

Originally Posted by Focal X

I think that's part of the reason many people are upset. They could have asked the community for advice about this before they even started. I'm getting mixed up between all the threads on all the forums, but somewhere someone linked a thread where the site owner was given advice on his husbandry and flipped out. I, honestly, would not offer advice since they don't appear receptive.

Members have given them advice on their TOS. Unchanged.

Members have given them advice on the phony ad. Unchanged.

I'm sorry I'm not trying to pick at you but I was thinking the same way when this started and not others, but these two guys themselves changed my opinion based on what they have posted. They are responding nicely, but we are getting politicians answer to these questions that are vague and contradictory to what is taking place.

As I said...I have not seen some of the prior dealings with these guys...so I haven't seen the flipping out part, lol.

However, they HAVE totally changed several aspects of their TOS...there are a lot of changes, but the most notable parts:

THE PROVISIONS LISTED IN THIS SECTION, SECTION 15, SUPERCEDE ALL OTHER TERMS THAT WOULD NORMALLY CAUSE CONFLICT. WE GUARANTEE THAT ANY AND ALL LIVE ANIMALS YOU RECEIVE WILL ARIVE ALIVE, HEALTHY, AND AS DESCRIBED. THIS INCLUDES THE GENETIC COMPOSITION THAT WAS ADVERTISED ON THE AUCTION LISTING. IF FOR ANY REASON YOU ARE NOT HAPPY WITH THE ANIMAL YOU RECEIVE YOU MAY CONTACT US, WITHIN 7 DAYS, TO SCHEDULE A RETURN, AT WHICH POINT YOU WILL BE GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO SELECT ANOTHER ANIMAL OF YOUR CHOICE, AS LONG AS THAT ANIMAL IS OF EQUAL OR LESSER VALUE AS THE ANIMAL THAT WAS ORIGINALLY WON.

IN NO EVENT WILL BALLBIDS.COM BE LIABLE TO YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY CONSEQUENTIAL, EXEMPLARY, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO LOST PROFIT DAMAGES ARISING FROM YOUR USE OF THE SERVICES, EVEN IF BALLBIDS.COM HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY CONTAINED HEREIN, BALLBIDS.COM 'S LIABILITY TO YOU FOR ANY CAUSE WHATSOEVER AND REGARDLESS OF THE FORM OF THE ACTION, WILL AT ALL TIMES BE LIMITED TO THE AMOUNT PAID BY YOU TO BALLBIDS.COM FOR BIDS IN THE 12-MONTH PERIOD PRECEDING THE EVENT THAT GAVE RISE TO THE LIABILITY. THE ONLY EXCEPTION TO THIS LIMITATION OF LIABILITY IS THE COST OF A DEAD ANIMAL, WHICH WILL BE COVERED AT BALLBIDS.COM’S EXPENSE, OR THE SHIPMENT’SINSURER

Now, in the changes they made last night, they had said something about THEM paying for return shipping....however, that part seems to be gone now. Perhaps they should get everything in their TOS finalized before offering up any more auctions....

if the site is ballbids.com it is down as of now.


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