Allen Belcher / Big Daddy's Wholesale ... WARNING

Bryon,
One quick note before I jump back into the greenhouse. I answered a short PM by you this morning with a longer answer, and then raised an issue that concerns me deeply about this whole event, requesting an explanation. You have not answered yet. Allen provided me with many details that I cannot share here, but which deepen my concerns. You are welcome to put our PM communications here in their entirety, and answer my concern in this forum. Thanks.

Just read your document.

First off , my DH het snow boa was not near a single animals of yours . I advised you the prior day that I had the appointment and would need to bring her and the necessary equipment with me . She was in an empty room in an empty building far away from any animals you owned and you know it. I will not at any time place another persons collection at risk with one of my own animals.

As far as the poss hets go . I watched you sell anything out of that tank as normal in the shop. When you told me there were supposed to be poss hets in there I asked you why you were selling them as normals . I'm not saying you never bought poss hets but they can't be both . You admitted already to marking normals as poss hets. Which is it? Is this the typical run around?

As far as anydeals that I tried to make , I did exactly as you requested and let them go through you . What happened? You bought out both deals from out from under me and on the second deal YOU called me to ask ME what would be a good offer to make him. Get it right dude.

As far as vet visits you made , why didn't you take the beardie that you let waste away to the vet? Why didn't didn't you take the rest of the group to the vet for testing after it died? I've never hid any animal that I've ever had a illness with. Don't have a reason to . As a responsible owner I never put anyone else's collection at risk with one of mine and I did give you the courtesy of letting you know I would be bringing her with me .

Lie all you want dude . It'll all catch up soon enough.

Jim
I'll be answering your concerns tonight. I'm sure it was an interesting conversation. Call him in a couple weeks , betcha it changes.

I dont think i've seen as many people veiwing a thread as this one, in quite a while. 2 come in mind, the Whitefeather Saga, and the Leverton Scandal!

As to Allen's post, if you gave Bryon permission to take pictures and never explained to him any restrictions on his usage of those photos, your up the creek without a paddle my friend. I have known Bryon for some time now, and honestly he has been one of the most loyal, honorable and respectful individuals i have met via fauna. Do i think he posted this just because he was mad you bought him out on some deals, or to try and get his story out before you. Nope! I think he posted the FACTS, with a sprinkle of personal flavor. Why the personal some of you may ask? Because we are in this industry because of a PASSION we have for our animals. Not because of the $$. Heck, if your here for the money, then you MUST be a very patient person cause it doesnt come for many years unless you had pleanty of capital to start out with a whole collection of breedable animals.

I dont see Bryon as a money grubber! I dont see Bryon as a vindictive person! I dont see Bryon as childish either! I see Bryon with a broken heart having to watch those animals live in that kind of an environment and not being able to do anything about it or get the man that owns them to hear his plea's for mercy.

Fess up Allen, clean up, and straighten up. Your not sunk yet my friend. You have every chance RIGHT NOW to rebuild your reputation. Dont turn this into a mud slinging battle, and dont think that your threats are going to do anything but fuel OUR fire of resentment towards you and your practices.

I give you the benefit of the doubt that you can be a man Allen, and take this like a man. Standing tall with your chest out, chin up.

I've been in the fauna fire pit before, and i'll tell you, my hands where sweating every time i typed a response. But i didnt turn it into a huge issue, i handled it, and now i stand proudly (yet underneath) some great people on this board. You can to, i'll stop rambling, but you get my point. Hope to see you handle this properly.


Thanks again Bryon!! You are an asset to this industry, and a GREAT friend who i'll always stand beside.

Originally Posted by HerpLuver

Fess up Allen, clean up, and straighten up. Your not sunk yet my friend. You have every chance RIGHT NOW to rebuild your reputation. Dont turn this into a mud slinging battle, and dont think that your threats are going to do anything but fuel OUR fire of resentment towards you and your practices.

I give you the benefit of the doubt that you can be a man Allen, and take this like a man. Standing tall with your chest out, chin up.

I've been in the fauna fire pit before, and i'll tell you, my hands where sweating every time i typed a response. But i didnt turn it into a huge issue, i handled it, and now i stand proudly (yet underneath) some great people on this board. You can to, i'll stop rambling, but you get my point. Hope to see you handle this properly.

I'd have to agree here Allen.

No one likes to be on the other end of a BOI thread, but the reality is - there are only 2 ways to go from here.

Isn't it possible that some things were neglected at your reptile business? Not out of malice, but simply out of being overwhelemed with the large amount of animals you have combined with the pressures of running several businesses. I have to assume that if you describe your businesses as successful you would also charecterize them as busy.

As for litigation - let's be serious Allen. If Bryon's finances are as you allege - what exactly do you expect to gain from any action that you (and your attorney) think would prove fruitful? Also, you are assuming that you would prevail. The only person that wins in these cases are the attorneys.

I appreciate that you took the time to post a response to this thread. I will say that bringing Bryon's kids into this (the thing about Christmas) was a poor choice. If you help someone out its just that. You could've made your point without going there.

The really sad part about this is that Bryon was truely excited at the prospect to work for you.

I'd like to think that this could be resolved off-line with a post later down the road as an update. Emotions are extremely high at this point and no one stands to gain any ground given these circumstances.

Herp-luver states:
As to Allen's post, if you gave Bryon permission to take pictures and never explained to him any restrictions on his usage of those photos, your up the creek without a paddle my friend.

Check Allen's statement, but no where does he say he gave Bryon permission to take pictures. BTW, I did talk to an attorney last night about this issue, with a variety of "what if's", and he informed me that Allen has several paddles.

Shavemycoinpurse asks:
Isn't it possible that some things were neglected at your reptile business?

Not speaking for Allen, but lets assume that this premise is correct. There's a lot of room between this being true and what Bryon alleges.

SMCP also asks:
As for litigation - let's be serious Allen. If Bryon's finances are as you allege - what exactly do you expect to gain from any action that you (and your attorney) think would prove fruitful?

Good gosh, are we to assume that poor people with computers have carte-blanche to violate statutes (not proven yet, just alleged ... I know) and trash peoples reputations? If Bryon's actions include the theft of other proprietary information and slander, because he has no money, he gets to do it to his hearts content? While a full blown lawsuit would cost many thousands, Allen may be able to halt what he perceives as malicious, false, and illegal action by spending less than $1K. It is certainly Alllen's decision to make, and if Bryon has been less-than-truthful, I would be tempted to spend far more than that myself. Can't get blood out of a turnip, but you sure can discredit it from being much of a turnip!

Originally Posted by Chamco

Check Allen's statement, but no where does he say he gave Bryon permission to take pictures. BTW, I did talk to an attorney last night about this issue, with a variety of "what if's", and he informed me that Allen has several paddles.

Well, let's assume that Allen is currently in a defensive position due to the allegations at hand. Does stating in his "statement" that Allen gave Bryon permission to take pictures without giving restrictions to there usage, sound like a viable defensive strategy? No, it says that he left things open, hoping Bryon would overlook the disgusting enclosures and environment the animals where suscepted to.

Which would leave Allen without leverage to his slander case.

Then again, i havent been in the court systems much to know how all this works. So i may be wrong.

Allen's reply raises issues that Bryon did not about their relationship. Don't know how much truth is in them any more than as with Bryon's statements. IM most HO, the nature of the relationship between Bryon and Allen has everything to do with the credibility of Bryon's charges. I do not pretend to know exactly what it was, but at this point, having not only read Allen's statement, I also have insight from having spoken to him and having him answer some of my questions. I believe that there were significant recent issues between them that caused a lot of friction and discontent beyond anything having to do with the husbandry concerns as mentioned by Bryon. Allen alluded to some of these, whereas Bryon had not in earlier posts. I do not know the truth. I do know that Bryon's motivations have everything to do with his believability. As examples of how this could change perceptions of what we have been shown by Bryon:

1) Are the pictures representative of all of Allen's animals, or only the dozen worst examples that Bryon could find?

2) Are they true "as-is" pictures, or were the situations manipulated?

3) If Allen has a prescribed cleaning schedule, were the pictures taken the day before cleaning, the day after, or something else?

I am not defending what the pictures show, and have no qualms with someone looking at them and saying "Day-before, day-after ? I don't care! That's disgusting !" To me, Bryon's motivations for bringing this here are the context by which I will give credibility to what he has said and shown so far. At his point, it is not just what Bryon has said about his relationship with Allen, but what he may have chosen to mis-characterize (if he has) and exclude (again, if he has). The grain of salt which I was using to read his posts is larger today than it was yesterday.

Big Daddy, with regards to your fauna.doc, would you mind helping me out here??

Next there is a pic of some high end ball pythons all together in on container. O.k. two piles of poop five snakes fresh water forty-one quart container oh I almost forgot these snakes just came in and there in quarantine.

There's actually 4 "piles of poop" as you call them, and 6 P. regius in this tub. I've attached an image, highlighted for easy reference. So you mean to tell me that this is standard quarantine procedure at Big Daddy's Wholesale????

The lamp inside the boas caging is there because that female had a mild case of upper respitory and the vet told me to raise her temps for 7 to 10 days.

No excuse. By the way, is that another RI victim housed directly below her, or just another animal in quarantine?? After all these years in the business, do you really still need a vet to tell you to increase temps??

Then the pic of a rodent in with a snake, you can tell this rodent has just been put in with this snake. How? Because it is either still alive for one or is not dirty from being in a cage for days as suggested.

You said it yourself Big Daddy...the mouse was not dirty from being in the cage for days... so your cages are dirty, huh???
I can't think of one reason why it might still be alive to...maybe the animal has an RI and it's appetite just isn't what it used to be...I wonder...

I currently own four businesses and I am successful at them all.

Maybe you should quit one or two so these animals can receive the proper care that they deserve. Laying sewer pipe is more down your alley. Because after comments like these...

Let’s face it all animals poop! Poop on newspaper usually dries in 4 to 6 hours and on moss usually a day at the most.

...you sure do know your "poop".

I run 287 racks of animals

Please...

Oh, and as far as all of that BS about contacting your attorney for legal advice, Byron's certified letter, private property, and the whole "see you in court" thing does nothing for your case. Maybe you think you should make sure all four of your business are filed and in good standing with the IRS and the state of Alabama, for some reason after doing numerous background checks, business name look-ups (Big Daddy's Wholesale), etc. I just can't seem to find yours on record...hmmmm.

One more thing...Mark Bell has 50 times that many racks of animals, and let me tell ya...his stuff stays CLEAN!!!!!!!!! I know you know your "poop" but when it comes to snakes...the go potty, then they leave the area. They don't stick around with 5 or 6 buddies and rub their faces in it for days and days and days...

Originally Posted by Chamco

Check Allen's statement, but no where does he say he gave Bryon permission to take pictures. BTW, I did talk to an attorney last night about this issue, with a variety of "what if's", and he informed me that Allen has several paddles.



Not speaking for Allen, but lets assume that this premise is correct. There's a lot of room between this being true and what Bryon alleges.



Good gosh, are we to assume that poor people with computers have carte-blanche to violate statutes (not proven yet, just alleged ... I know) and trash peoples reputations? If Bryon's actions include the theft of other proprietary information and slander, because he has no money, he gets to do it to his hearts content? While a full blown lawsuit would cost many thousands, Allen may be able to halt what he perceives as malicious, false, and illegal action by spending less than $1K. It is certainly Alllen's decision to make, and if Bryon has been less-than-truthful, I would be tempted to spend far more than that myself. Can't get blood out of a turnip, but you sure can discredit it from being much of a turnip!

Jim:

You seem to be quick to criticize Bryon's position yet more than willing to accept Allen's.

No Allen didn't say he gave permission for Bryon to take pictures - Bryon did. But again you seem more than willing to doubt Bryon's account in favor of Allen's.

You are correct - Allen may persue whatever legal remedies he deems appropriate. I just don't see a significant remedy. You can stop all of this without a single trip to court.

I find myself question exactly what your motives are here Jim.