USARK NO More

John,
Believe me when I say this, I would rather see no compromise, however the likelihood of that is slim to zero. Compromise on some issues will have to happen. Whether that will make it hard to Vito we will have to see.

Take care,
Warren

The NC law and Ohio law are not the same. Very different. NC has no permits, fees, micro-chipping or registry. The Ohio law does. The NC law is by keeper for keeper. Ohio law was written mostly by lawmakers. In NC the main requirements are that species listed be in locking or latching enclosures and transport containers and venomous has to have a bite protocol. That generally sums it up. It was drafted and instituted to block any further efforts by animal rights groups to impose a ban or stricter regulations on the state of NC by NCARK before it became USARK. It was a tactic that has served us well and now we only worry on a county to township basis. And not many know it but before the NC Cetain Reptile law, venomous was illegal in the state.
My understanding was USARK proposed the NC model legislation to Ohio. The "no compromise/from my cold dead hands" crowd was against it all the way and blocked that move. Now they are stuck with a worse law requiring fees, registration, microchips and permits which is in all, just another form of tax and a defacto ban on future ownership.
I have mixed feelings on the Ohio situation. For one HSUS was out saying the reptile part had the teeth filed out of it and of course; they wanted more done. On the other hand we lost more than we feel we should have. Apparently no one is happy but knowing our true enemies are not satisfied takes a lil bit of the sting out of it. Then again in a perfect world.......
Now I want to thank Dr Warren Booth for taking time from his vacation across the pond to touch on the issue. He did not have to do that and it could all be left up to official statements under ARK letterhead leaving us all to speculate and pontificate further. Like we really need anymore of that. Right after news of the resignation I told a close friend "I wanna hear what Booth thinks before I start getting ideas." We have met and know a lot of the same good people. He's good for the cause.
Which leads me to thank Mr Krull and HRNR for staying on top of this and doing their shows spontaneously. They along with Dr Booth have been the only clarity through the static of rumors and gossip for myself.

Originally Posted by Taking Up Serpents

The NC law and Ohio law are not the same. Very different. NC has no permits, fees, micro-chipping or registry. The Ohio law does. The NC law is by keeper for keeper. Ohio law was written mostly by lawmakers. In NC the main requirements are that species listed be in locking or latching enclosures and transport containers and venomous has to have a bite protocol. That generally sums it up. It was drafted and instituted to block any further efforts by animal rights groups to impose a ban or stricter regulations on the state of NC by NCARK before it became USARK. It was a tactic that has served us well and now we only worry on a county to township basis. And not many know it but before the NC Cetain Reptile law, venomous was illegal in the state.
My understanding was USARK proposed the NC model legislation to Ohio. The "no compromise/from my cold dead hands" crowd was against it all the way and blocked that move. Now they are stuck with a worse law requiring fees, registration, microchips and permits which is in all, just another form of tax and a defacto ban on future ownership.
I have mixed feelings on the Ohio situation. For one HSUS was out saying the reptile part had the teeth filed out of it and of course; they wanted more done. On the other hand we lost more than we feel we should have. Apparently no one is happy but knowing our true enemies are not satisfied takes a lil bit of the sting out of it. Then again in a perfect world.......
Now I want to thank Dr Warren Booth for taking time from his vacation across the pond to touch on the issue. He did not have to do that and it could all be left up to official statements under ARK letterhead leaving us all to speculate and pontificate further. Like we really need anymore of that. Right after news of the resignation I told a close friend "I wanna hear what Booth thinks before I start getting ideas." We have met and know a lot of the same good people. He's good for the cause.
Which leads me to thank Mr Krull and HRNR for staying on top of this and doing their shows spontaneously. They along with Dr Booth have been the only clarity through the static of rumors and gossip for myself.

The NC law required registration:

§ 14-418.1. Registration of reptiles.
The owner of any venomous reptile, large constricting snake, or crocodilian, as defined in this Article, shall register the location of the reptile's housing with local law enforcement. Registration shall be made by December 1, 2010, and shall be updated on an annual basis, and within 30 days of any change in the location of the reptile's housing. Local law enforcement may charge an annual registration fee not to exceed fifty dollars ($50.00) per housing location of reptiles named in this Article.

It also allowed for searches and seizures. No, it's not the same as SB310...........but it can be made that way before you know it.

Robb, once legislation is on the books, it can be amended to suit the needs of whatever more powerful group decides to come along and use it as a basis for their platform.

Example, in California, select municipal agencies decided that it would be a good idea to adopt a Uniform Construction and Cost Accounting Act. This would allow them to not have to go to bid on routine maintenance and emergency work and would also offer them provisions to abbreviate the bidding process in certain circumstances.

It was not too long until Private special interest groups began amending this Act to their benefit. The large labor unions, private contractors, etc. are a more savvy and better funded force than any municipality. Once they began amending it, the "Act" (as it is known) became a tool that now severely hampers local agencies.

Private businesses turned the "Act" into something that almost totally restricts a local agency from responding to many types of routine maintenance and emergency work.

It is an example of why pre-emptive legislation isn't always pre-emptive. What's to stop a well funded and oiled machine like HSUS from slowly adding year by year amendments to the NC legislation? Before you know it, it becomes something much worse than what was intended.

I see no mention of it here in the Certain Reptile Law that was SB307. Not trying to argue or discredit but can you give a link to your source? I know of people that keep listed species and they should know as well as I to correct any mistakes I have made.
I do not know of any amendments made to the law and was never made aware of any. So it is possible, but unlikely it would never have come to my attention as the NC keeping community is pretty tight knit. I'm sure that USARK board members would have caught wind if their model legislation was being tampered with. But you could be right.

Link to NC law via NC General Assembly website-
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/Sessions...PDF/S307v4.pdf

For the sake of not hijacking the thread, if need be post another or PM. Getting to the bottom of this is very important to me.
Thanks,
Blue

Erika N. Chen-Walsh, the Vice President of the new “Herp Alliance”. has interview on http://www.herpnation.com/audio/erik...-nation-radio/

She answers a few more things. I am not taking sides. It is just more info about this.

Interview with Warren Booth of USARK. Listen now at the link below....

http://www.herpnation.com/audio/usar...-nation-radio/

Thanks,

Dan Krull
Herp Nation Media

For the final enacted legislation pertaining to large constrictors, crocodillains, and venomous reptiles please look here: http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislat...Article_55.pdf . The regulations are basic and not intrusive in any fashion. The reality is that a ban was well within reach in NC and these regulations gave credibility to the keeping community.

NCARK/USARK were very important players in helping to prevent a ban in NC however the rewrite of Article 55 was not produced soley by this group. It was crafted by a consortium of public and private individuals and institutions under NCPARC's (http://www.ncparc.org/) Policy Regulation and Trade working group.

Based on the latest developments, and the fact that now there are multiple factions apparently involved with herp related legislative issues, I have decided to close this forum and move all threads into the General Legislative Discussions Forum. Otherwise I can see myself winding up in the position of having to offer a free forum to any and all such organizations who wish one, and I am just not willing to do that. So be prepared for this forum to vanish sometime REAL soon.

All such discussions can continue in the general forum without loss of content or focus, I believe.

Going on Phil's post, the idea that the NC bill written with NCARK was preemptive is laughable. NCARK stopped a bill that would have completely halted the reptile hobby in NC. Yes, it was preventative in nature. I'd much rather live under a set of completely reasonable measures instead of having to worry about when the next total ban would be introduced and requiring a ton of attention in order to possibly be dealt with.

Craig, I assume you didn't live in NC during that period, so just don't pretend to know what was going on. If you did, you'd realize that the bill that was introduced was on the herp community's behalf. This was a relief to every educated member of the NC herp community.

I have supported NCARK and then USARK for many years and I will continue to do so. These two organizations have had prominent roles in preserving my ability to pursue the hobby that I love. I don't care about personal drama within the organization. The records are open and that is the important part to me. I will research Andrew's new organization and decide whether or not to contribute to it as well. I feel that there has been a witch hunt going after Andrew for a long time due to a view that he wasn't drastic enough in his actions with the Burms, Rocks, and Anacondas.

I've always felt it was funny that people viewed this as compromising and sacrificing these animals for other ones. I have a different view. I don't feel that there was an option for these animals. He could have gone in there with the "tea party" mentality and he'd have been sent packing with nothing and the whole deal would have been screwed.

Chris

Originally Posted by JCCS

........

I've always felt it was funny that people viewed this as compromising and sacrificing these animals for other ones. I have a different view. I don't feel that there was an option for these animals. He could have gone in there with the "tea party" mentality and he'd have been sent packing with nothing and the whole deal would have been screwed.

Chris

I couldn't agree more. People really need to think about the big picture here and start being more reasonable. The fact is that some compromises need to be made. Does it suck? Yes. Is everyone going to be happy? No. But that is ALWAYS going to be the case, no matter what the issue at hand is.