Evaluate my Skinks Introductiion (please!)

Hey all,
Over the last couple of days, we have been gradually introducing my corucia to each other - two females Czz, Nimbus and Attila, and male Cza Kaiser. There has been quite a bit of preliminary interaction, but some of it has been a bit forceful and Im really wondering where I should draw the conclusion that they are/are not going to get on.

Firstly, there is Nimbus - the largest of all three skinks (my male Cza is rather small for the subs.). She appears to be vying for dominance over the group, and is certainly the most proactive. She seems less interested with the male, but seems to follow the other female around. She doesnt actively chase or bite her, but is very persistent trying to scent the other female. The other female appears afraid of both of the other skinks, and runs away from any contact - which means that she often climbs over Nimbus, or hits her with her tail as shes scrambling away etc, which seems in turn to irritate Nimbus who will occasionally nip at her as she runs. When she remains still (not often), Nimbus will attempt to scent her all over, but not bite. Rather than bite her, Nimbus will more often "butt" her with her head - one of these butts occurred when the other female was trying to climb over her, and almost threw her off the branch.

Secondly, Attila; she appears older than the other two skinks. She seems to be afraid of the others, and spends most of her time trying to get away from them even when they are ignoring her. We put them into the new enclosure last night for a couple of hours to let them encounter each other in a more secluded environment, and she spent almost all of the time trying to escape rather than explore. She is only marginally smaller than Nimbus, but definitely appears quite a bit older. When she feels trapped, she will bite out of fear.

Lastly Kaiser, the male. He seems quite pushy with Nimbus, and jabs his nose into her side quite a lot (but not in the same "butting" manner that Nimbus uses against Attila). She tolerates this for a while (albeit with some huffing), but he really does push her quite hard, and eventually she will turn to challenge him. They spent a lot of time scenting each others faces (both would turn so that the other could never reach the body), and eventually clambered over each other and went away to explore. They dont appear afraid of each other at all, and seem very evenly matched. At one point after an encounter Nimbus turned to go away and he bit at the base of her tail. He did not give chase. Later in the evening they both descended to the heavily-planted base of the cage and didnt emerge for some time. When they eventually did, they moved off in different directions. We couldnt hear any sounds of aggression down there, and so can only assume that it was another mild confrontation. When he tries to push Attila, she will either run away or lunge at him to try and drive him away.

At the end of this session, which was the longest they have spent together to date, each skink at least one small mark on them. Nimbus has come off best, with only a tiny scuff on her neck (perhaps Kaiser trying to mate?), followed by Attila who has a faint nip on a back leg. Kaiser appears to have been nipped across the face, as he has a couple of grazed scales under his chin. None of the injuries are serious, and are more a case of grazes than lacerations.

Sorry for the length of the post!

So, really, Im not too sure what to make of this progress. Im glad that there has not been any real aggression, in the case of chasing and biting etc, but Im still uncertain as to whether or not they will all get along. I know that Nimbus and Kaiser have both lived with other corucia in the past (Czz in both cases), and am less concerned about their compatibility. Attilas past on the other hand I know very little about; I dont know if she is simply afraid of other skinks because of her age and status, or its just my two. Any light that you guys could shed on the situation would be fantastic!

Jo

Hi, Jo

are you putting them all into an brand new enclosure (so it isn't anyone's "territory")?

It sounds like Nimbus is the "dominant female", and sometimes they simply won't accept another female (or they'll keep the other female so cowed, she won't breed).

The interaction you've described is not unusual, I'm afraid...

Since Attila is getting the rough end of the deal, I'd be inclined to introduce the others into *her* enclosure, so it's Attila's "territory", and maybe she'd feel a little more secure and/or assertive.

Another possibility would be to let Attila and Kaiser get established, and then introduce Nimbus into Kaiser & Attila's territory at a later time (say, after a few weeks). That might even things up a bit. In fact, I think I like that option the best.

The alternative is to just supervise them for long periods of time when they are introduced; provide lots of hiding places and places for chased skinks to get away; and ride it out (and hope they all eventually get along). But bear in mind that they might not... The aggressive behavior should taper off after the first couple of days, and go away almost altogether after 2-3 weeks. If it doesn't stop after a week or so, I would separate them.

Or you can just keep Kaiser and Nimbus together, and forget about adding Attila to the mix. :-/

-- Celeste

After a lot of squabbling during introductions, I was beginning to lose hope. Attila still ignored everyone, Nimbus and Kaiser were constantly challenging one another...it all seemed to be going a bit pear-shaped. So I separated everyone again, and left the male in the cage for a week or so. I just reintroduced both girls again, and after some more fracas, I caught Kaiser mating with Nimbus! Unfortunately Attila, once she eventually calmed down, decided to attack both Nimbus and Kaiser; theyre both bigger than her and didnt seem too bothered, but Ive pulled her out of there permanently.

They have spent last night sleeping in the same hide

The downside is that now my mellow Kaiser is a bit bitey - presumably defending his girl

On another note, one of a pair of skinks I bought a while ago has turned out to be a male - at least, Im pretty confident that he is, as he savagely bites at Kaiser (which is why he was never allowed into the communal area, lol), has a fairly cylindrical body (but is a bit borderline) and has a contoured vent area. Which means that I have had 2 young males living together! Ive been advised that maybe the lack of a female and the fact that they were quite young (at least 3, possibly slightly more) meant that there were no issues, but that was a bit annoying to discover. Has anyone heard of this happening before?

Congratulations on a [reasonably] successful introduction, Jo!

Yes, the males generally become very protective of their females once the females are pregnant, so the fact that he is being aggressive toward you now is probably a good sign!

(That's why I warn people who want to try to breed their "pet" Corucia that they may no longer be the friendly, handleable companions they are used to once they are in a breeding situation -- and the aggression can be quite savage, and very surprising if you don't know what to expect. If you think Kaiser is "bitey" now, just wait until Nimbus has a baby! The females go absolutely *psycho* for the first few weeks protecting their babies).

Hopefully, you'll get to enjoy the scrabble of tiny baby Corucia toenails later in the year! BTW: mating does not necessarily = pregnancy. I've observed skinks mating who didn't give birth until 9 months later. So watch the calendar, but don't be surprised if you don't have a new baby in exactly 7.5 months. 7.5 months (i.e., around mid-December) would be the *earliest* Nimbus would give birth. But it could be later.

BTW: how old is Nimbus? Because I just had another young (~3 year-old) female deliver a slug. My first female, Salome, also delivered a slug in November 2005, when she was about 3 years old (she had a healthy baby this past November, 2006 at ~ age 4+). So I'm seeing a definite pattern of younger females (3 years old) delivering slugs their first pregnancies.

(For those of you who haven't seen one, a "slug" looks like an undercooked hard-boiled egg yolk: an orange-ish, oblong, gelatinous blob. Sorry I didn't get a picture of this one -- it was mostly consumed by the time I found its remains).

And for the record, females who deliver a slug are just as psycho-aggressive for a few weeks afterwards as ones who deliver a healthy baby... must be a hormonal thing.

-- Celeste

Hiya Celeste,
Dont worry, I know that mating doesnt equate young But I was so pleased with this first step that I wanted to talk about it! I was totally prepared for Kaisers aggression, though it seems to have tapered off slightly for now - he will eat from my hand again instead of trying to take it off. I think he scared my boyfriend, who was adding some new plants to the enclosure only to have Kaiser come after him snapping! Nimbus is always aggressive, so I keep out of her way anyways When I first got these skinks in I think October time (Nimbus was housed with another girl, who unfortunately died some weeks ago), the other skink laid a slug, and became very aggressive so I have experienced that side of it before - when I went to take it out, she came after me, which was unusual for her as she was always very shy and retiring.

While I like that Kaiser is quite outgoing, I dont really regard either of these as "Pets" in the same way as, say, my tegus who are used to a lot of handling. I think its just a bonus that he is a lovely fellow

Nimbus' age is unknown, but I would guess about 5 or so, based on the little history I know of her - I have a younger male who is estimated to be around 3, again based on where he was kept previously, and she is larger and generally more mature-looking. Again, its just an educated guess based on the info I have been given, but I would be surprised if she was any younger.