Exotic Pets (Ken Foose)

Originally Posted by rattyrugrats

I do not know what an IP address is or how it relates two people together as we do not share a computer or email address or anything. Just because we both live in NM does not mean that we have any relation, but you can continue to make assumptions if you like.

Jessica Miller

No assumption on his part- just a statement of fact. An IP address serves as a unique identifier of the end user to and from which internet traffic is routed.

Also, it has been confirmed by Matthew that you're not just "both in NM" and that you are, in fact, posting from his internet connection. That being said, do you care to rethink your somewhat dishonest response to the factual statement that Dennis has made?

I did not realize who it was as he had not put his last name at the time, so I was not being dishonest at all. I also never said that we did or did not know each other, as I was not sure if I did nor not. But, either way, I do not see how this affects anything, as it is not as if I asked/told him to post. By the way, hi Matt. Thanks for trying!
Also, Ken doesn't appear to have his TOS listed on his website. But, considering that not noticing the tail tip was his fault, I should not have to pay anything for his mistake, as the purchase would not have been made otherwise.

Jessica Miller

Originally Posted by KelliH

Can you direct me to his T.O.S. please? I looked all over the website and I'm not seeing it. Thanks.

Sorry, back from lunch now.

Kelli, I can't find it on his website either. I was going off his earlier description of this standard TOS.

Ken, can you post a copy of your TOS?

Originally Posted by rattyrugrats

But, considering that not noticing the tail tip was his fault, I should not have to pay anything for his mistake, as the purchase would not have been made otherwise.

Ken has aready, and fully admitted his mistake in overlooking the tail issue. Can we please agree that you did not send back the snake due to the missing tail tip when you had the chance? It would really simplify things if you just treat that as a seperate issue from what ultimately motivated you to put the snake in a box and ship it back.

I am sorry you feel slighted, cheated, or whatever term you choose, but Ken gave you a chance to redeem your money, less shipping, and you choose not to take him up on that. In all our transactions in this hobby, the buyer has a responsiblity too. Crying after the fact looks very much like sour grapes.

Wow, can you not understand what I am writing/saying? I hesitated to ship the snake back to him because I did not want to have to pay for HIS mistake! I tried to think of alternate solutions and I even asked him if there was anything else he could do, but he REFUSED to try to help me. So, while I was still debating sending him back at a financial loss, the snake began acting very aggressively. With this now thrown in, I made up my mind and told him I would be shipping him back that Monday. He said okay! He did NOT mention that he would not refund the original shipping cost! If he had, then I would have just resold him to avoid that much of a loss! A loss that I should not have to incur because he sold me a flawed animal that I would not have purchased if I had been informed of the flaw!

Jessica Miller

Originally Posted by Ken Harbart

No assumption on his part- just a statement of fact. An IP address serves as a unique identifier of the end user to and from which internet traffic is routed.

Also, it has been confirmed by Matthew that you're not just "both in NM" and that you are, in fact, posting from his internet connection. That being said, do you care to rethink your somewhat dishonest response to the factual statement that Dennis has made?

No - if multiple computers are connected to the same internet service they can have the same IP address. This is determined by the domain/router/hub to which internet connection is made. Therefore, if she says they do no share the same computer, it's very possible. Ken, I do not think you're in a position to accuse her of being dishonest considering this caveat in your logic.

Jessica, I'll sell you back the snake, and I'll pay to have it shipped to you. Then you can sell it and get all your money back from the sale as you suggested. If this is good for you, email me and we can do the deed.

As far as TOS for internet goes, I don't think I have them written anywhere. I've not really had this kind of problem before, and since most of my business is in house, I never thought the need. I might have to re-address that. However, I did tell her I would not pay shipping either way if she sent it back because it was a "mean" snake.

I did not say that I would get "all" of my money back. I just said that I would take "less" of a loss. If you're willing to pay to ship it back, then why don't you just send me the shipping money instead? It's because you said you can't afford it! "It's the sign of the times," remember? And you did NOT say that you would not refund the shipping costs. Do not lie to try to defend yourself now. After I told you that I was going to return him and asked which address to send him to, you replied:

Re: Message about: Baby Argentine Boa
From: horsevaulting@aol.com
To: ExoticPetsLV@aol.comCc:Bcc:
Date:Sat, 7 Mar 2009 10:40 am

I was going to send him out yesterday, but I didn't want to have to worry with the weekend so I will be sending him out on Monday for a Tuesday arrival. Thanks.


-----Original Message-----
From: ExoticPetsLV@aol.com
To: Horsevaulting@aol.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 9:36 am
Subject: Re: Message about: Baby Argentine Boa


Yes, you would return him to the address below

Thanks, Ken
Exotic Pets LLC
2410 N. Decatur #160
Las Vegas NV 89108
(702) 631-7387
fx (702) 631-7367
www.Exoticpetslv.com

Absolutely NO mention that you would not refund the shipping cost! Just a yes, send him back.

Jessica Miller

I offered what I offered because I felt bad about all this. I thought my suggestion would help. Did not mean to insult you by it. I will rescind my offer. I told you I would not pay for the shipping if you sent him back. Just because it was over the phone does not mean it was not said. I have no reason to lie. But I do feel I had reason to not pay the shipping on a snake that you decided you did not like. Back to square one. Sorry.

I can understand why Ken wouldn't want to refund shipping once the temperament issue was brought up. Snakes bite. Especially neonates, and especially Argentine boa neonates. It kinda comes with the territory. What if every buyer decided they wanted to return their snakes because it hissed and tried to bite them? That's not a legitimate reason for returning a snake. He made an offer to replace the snake based on the tail issue. She turned him down. Actually, she asked for money back for her to keep the snake. This sounds like typical buyer's remorse. She bought a snake she was unprepared for, focused on relatively minor issues and expected the seller to lose money when she returned it.

He made an offer to replace the snake based on the tail issue. She turned him down. Actually, she asked for money back for her to keep the snake. This sounds like typical buyer's remorse.

He made an offer that was going to cost her the price she paid for shipping. She was going to have to pay for the seller's mistake. Is that fair? It sounds to me like she asked if Ken might offer her some kind of discounted price due to the snake being flawed. You think that is "buyer's remorse"? You think it's ok to charge your customer for your mistakes?

If I ship a gecko to a customer, and it has a flaw that I did not notice I would have to pay for my mistake, and I would. Let's say the gecko had a missing toe for example. First of all I would apologize profusely to the customer, and I would ask them, "What can I do to correct my mistake?". If we then could not come to an agreement of some sort, I would have them ship the gecko back (which I would pay for) and then refund them their money in full, including any shipping costs.

Am I wrong for doing business this way? I guess I am just not understanding this logic.