Venomoidinc.com Inquiry

It does not regenerate. It repairs the gladn that is left over.

I will tell you the answer to my question.

He will not sign a contract saying the snake will NEVER produce venom again.

You ask why? Becuase it has happened before and he knows about the cobras that it happened too. They were hack jobs done in a garage.

Tanith a venomous keeper had her vert do a void surgery on a dead snake. His out take on it was that you could miss part of the gland if not carefull.

I say this. Jeremy is human. How many times do HUMAN doctors mess up. Are you willing to risk your lfe with a void? When humans do make mistakes. Atleast I KNOW all my venomous are hot. I KNOW they are loaded.

Originally Posted by Gary O

It does not regenerate. It repairs the gladn that is left over.

I will tell you the answer to my question.

He will not sign a contract saying the snake will NEVER produce venom again.

You ask why? Becuase it has happened before and he knows about the cobras that it happened too. They were hack jobs done in a garage.

Tanith a venomous keeper had her vert do a void surgery on a dead snake. His out take on it was that you could miss part of the gland if not carefull.

I say this. Jeremy is human. How many times do HUMAN doctors mess up. Are you willing to risk your lfe with a void? When humans do make mistakes. Atleast I KNOW all my venomous are hot. I KNOW they are loaded.

Man, do you ever sleep Gary? LOL, every time I've made a post You've been right there behind me 2 minutes later.

MY whole reason for wanting the venomoid, was purely for safety reasons. There have been ALOT of professional hot keepers who have been biten, and owning one for me, was just another safety precaution.

Originally Posted by gbcop

Can anyone provide me with such proof of regeneration, or towards someone who might have so I can forward such information over to this guy? I have since become highly concerned with the fact that people have mentioned that regeneration is possible, and Venomoidinc.com has yet to answer my question as to a written contract, or what they would do in the event an animal does regenerate.

Thanks,

David B.

Based on your request I did a simple GOOGLE search and found the following;
http://www.snakegetters.com/demo/vet/venomoid-faq.html
"Venomoid FAQ
Q. What happens if a venomoid snake bites me?
A. If you're lucky, nothing but a deep puncture wound from its fangs. That can still be a nasty bite, and you may want to discuss it with your doctor. If you're not lucky, some degree of envenomation may occur. Not all snakes sold as venomoid are actually unable to envenomate, either because of outright fraud on the dealer's part, a badly performed amateur surgical procedure, or partial regeneration of the duct or remaining gland tissue. Buyer beware. One serious human envenomation by a venomoid cobra was documented by the Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine, and some people have reported that their "venomoids" can kill mice or that they have milked their "venomoid" and obtained venom. Remember that some venomous snakes with complete glands can deliver many times the human lethal dose in one bite. A snake with even a little bit of gland tissue left can still give a very bad bite, possibly enough to kill. Regeneration has been reported by veterinarians who have examined some of these snakes, especially when only the duct is severed."

That led me to find this;
http://www.aussiereptileclassifieds....ON/debunk.html

"1) Liverpool England, Monocle Cobra “Naja kaothia” long term captive animal that bit a handler and did in fact inject venom which required medical treatment including Anti-Venom

2) Miami Florida, Monocle Cobra “Naja kaouthia” long term captive animal that bit a handler and did in fact inject venom which required medical treatment including Anti-Venom , Confirmed by Venom1 “ Miami Anti-Venom Bank” Also reported in Reptiles Magazine.

3) Holland, Gaboon Viper “Bitis gaboonica” Captive born animal who had its ducts removed bit a handler and did in fact inject venom which required medical treatment including Anti-Venom.

4) Port Saint Lucie Florida, Papuan Black Snake “Pseudechis papuanus” surgery performed by “Richard Ritchie” and returned to a seller upon receipt the seller offered the animal a Live mouse which the snake bit and killed, having suspicions of it being venomous a Large rat was offered and the snake again bit and killed the rat. After these to incidents Raymond Hunter a trained venom extraction laboratory technician performed a venom extraction on the animals with Scott Bice present and venom was confirmed.

5) In late 1986-87 Brian Blazer(currently Blazer's Educational Animal) Recieved 3 King Cobras(O. Hannah) 12-14' in length. All three specimens had venomoid surgeries conducted a few weeks prior.(Conducted by Dr. Funk) Apparently the deal fell through and Brian asked if I Ray Goushaw of Herpetological Breeding Research would take one off his hands. Specimens were split between Brian, Soco Gardens and myself. About three months later Brian called me in a panic. During a routine cage cleaning the king he was keeping had unexpectedly rushed him. Since he had a roll of paper towels in his hand he simply blocked the strike attempt. To his horror the paper towel roll filled with a yellow liquid. It was quickly confirmed that ALL THREE specimens were producing venom to some degree. All details can be confirmed upon request."

I don’t know that any of that helps but it would seem the info/proof you seek is not all that hard to find.

Originally Posted by gbcop

MY whole reason for wanting the venomoid, was purely for safety reasons. There have been ALOT of professional hot keepers who have been biten, and owning one for me, was just another safety precaution.

If you want a venomoid for "safety reasons" because you can't handle a full-on hot snake, then you have no business getting a snake in the first place. Get a coachwhip or watersnake or something else that IS actually harmless to play with.

Originally Posted by Wraith

If you want a venomoid for "safety reasons" because you can't handle a full-on hot snake, then you have no business getting a snake in the first place. Get a coachwhip or watersnake or something else that IS actually harmless to play with.

Where did I say I didn't have the experience or just flat out couldn't handle a hot snake???

Your not going to be able to find that because I never said that. ALOT of professional hot keepers have been tagged. It's a sad part of life, but accidents do happen. While risks can be GREATLY reduced, accidents still and can occure. While there are just as many if not more hot keepers who haven't been bit, everyone takes safety precautions when dealing with their animals. Ie: NEVER Stick hand inside cage when animal is inside, Use of trash can for holding, Use of extra long tweezers for feeding ect, ect, ect... These are ALL SAFETY PRECAUTIONS to keep from being bitten. Again, what's a better safety precaution than owning a hot snake that is unable to produce venom?

GBcop

This subject interests me. I have done a lot of research about this subject. Snakegetters is owned by Tanith. She may alos have the docs up when hervet did the surgeries.


But I ask you again. You are doing it for safty reasons. Will you go to the hospital if you are bitten and tell them you were bitten by so and so venomous snake?


Becuase I state again. venomoids are the unloaded gun of this hobby.

Oh and Tanith is a well respected venomous keeper. I just knew what the Vet that owns venomoid inc would say. I have went in depth about it with them.

also they say they are against free handling but they do it at the hamburg show ALL the time. Last hamburg show I went to they had an adult gabbon out and about being handled. FREELY! WOW that was so cool........ I am being a smart ass by calling it cool.

Originally Posted by gbcop

Again, what's a better safety precaution than owning a hot snake that is unable to produce venom?

Because in the back of your mind you will know it is not a real hot and that could cause complacency.
There is no comparing the protocol used when dealing with an intact snake versus a void.
Human nature will will not allow you to treat it as if one bite could be devastating.

Originally Posted by Gary O

GBcop

This subject interests me. I have done a lot of research about this subject. Snakegetters is owned by Tanith. She may alos have the docs up when hervet did the surgeries.


But I ask you again. You are doing it for safty reasons. Will you go to the hospital if you are bitten and tell them you were bitten by so and so venomous snake?


Becuase I state again. venomoids are the unloaded gun of this hobby.

Very intresting point Gary.

If I had say a C. Atrox and got tagged, of course I would go to the hospital immediately. Now if I accidently got tagged by a venomoid C. Atrox, honestly, I can't say I would immediately go to the hospital. I would monitor the bite for early warning signs of envenomation before I would go, and otherwise just monitor the area of the bite for possible infections after thoroughly cleaning the bite area.

But then again, the chance, however small of getting tagged, is the reason I have considered a venomoid.

Originally Posted by gbcop

I know alot of people are against Venomoid's, so if you are one of those people, please save your comments.

Any and all feedback is highly appreciated!

Thanks,

David Beaver

Ok, lets take a scenic little drive down to Stupidville. I realize that sounds sarcastic, and it is. If you don't know how to handle hot snakes, don't try.

I handle rattlesnakes; would never dream of trying to handle Elapids, without a good trainer.

David, it's not about the snake, it's about you. Please don't become another stupid statistic.